Scalpers Inc. John Lanchester Flash Boys: Cracking Money Code av Michael Lewis. Allen Lane, 274 pp, 20,00, mars 2014, ISBN 978 0 241 00363 3 Tidigt på eftermiddagen den 6 maj 2010 började det ledande aktieindexet i USA, Dow Jones Industrial Average, plötsligt falla. Det fanns ingen uppenbart yttre orsak till fallet ingen nyhet eller ekonomiska data, men marknaden, som hade drivit långsamt nedåt den dagen, minskade med en procent av minuter med 6 procent. Det fanns pandemonium: Några aktier i Dow handlade för priser så låga som 1 cent, andra till priser så höga som 100.000, i båda fallen utan uppenbar orsak. En 15-minutersperiod såg en förlust på cirka 1 biljon i marknadsvärdet. Hittills, så konstigt, men det var inte som om någonting som detta någonsin hade hänt tidigare. Konstiga saker händer på marknader, ofta utan någon uppenbar utlösare än masshysteri. Det är en bra anledning att en av de bästa böckerna om finanshistorien heter Manias, Panics och Crashes. Vad var verkligen bisarrt och aldrig tidigare skådat, var emellertid vad som hände därefter. Precis som marknaden hade kollapsat, återhämtade den sig. Priserna studsade tillbaka, och i slutet av en tjugo minuters freak-out var Dow tillbaka där den började. Det är världens ände Åh vänta, nej, det är bara en helt normal torsdag. Denna händelse blev känd som Flash Crash. Den officiella rapporten från Securities and Exchange Commission skyllde en enda dåligt tidsbestämd och ohjälpsam stor aktieförsäljning för kraschen, men den förklaringen misslyckades med att övertyga informerade observatörer. Istället skyllde många studenter på marknaden en ny uppsättning finansiella tekniker och teknologier, gemensamt kända som högfrekvent handel eller flashhandel. Detta argument rycklar på, och ansvarsfördelningen är fortfarande varmt ifrågasatt. Slutsatsen, som blir mer oroande ju mer du tänker på det, är att ingen helt förstår Flash Crash. Flash Crash var det första ögonblicket i strålkastaren för högfrekvent handel. Denna nya typ av marknadsaktivitet hade vuxit till en sådan grad att de flesta aktiemarknaderna nu var sammansatta inte av människor som köper och säljer från varandra, utan av datorer som inte har någon mänsklig inblandning än i utformningen av deras algoritmer. År 2008 var 65 procent av handeln på de offentliga aktiemarknaderna i USA av denna typ. Verkliga människor köper och säljer utgjorde endast en tredjedel av marknaden. Datorer var (och är) handel med aktier i tusenedelar av en sekund och utnyttjar små skillnader i pris för att ge en garanterad vinst. Utöver det visste dock knappast någon ytterligare information eller snarare, det enda folket som gjorde var de människor som tjänade pengar på det, som hade alla incitament att hålla sina munar stängd. Flash Crash dramatiserade det faktum att de offentliga aktiemarknaderna, vars hela rationale är öppen och transparent, hade kommit fram till en punkt där de flesta av deras verksamhet var hemlig och mystisk. Ange Michael Lewis. Flash Boys är ett antal saker, en av de viktigaste är en redogörelse för exakt vad som händer på aktiemarknaden. Det är en one-stop-butik för en förklaring av högfrekvent handel (härefter HFT). Boken läser som en thriller och är faktiskt organiserad som en med en hjälte vars uppgift är att lösa ett mysterium. Hjälten är en kanadensisk bankare som heter Brad Katsuyama, och mysteriet är på en yta av det en enkel. Katsuyamas jobb innebar att köpa och sälja aktier. Problemet var att när han satt på sin dator och försökte köpa ett lager, skulle priset ändras i det ögonblick han klickade på att utföra handeln. Det uppenbara marknadspriset var faktiskt inte tillgängligt. Han tog upp frågan med datorns folk vid sin bank, som först försökte skylla på honom och då när han visade det problem som de tittade på när han klickade på Enter och prisändringen gick tyst. Katsuyama kom att inse att hans problem var endemiskt över hela finansbranschen. Priset var inte priset. Bilden av marknaden som gavs av stabila priser som rörde sig över skärmarna var en illusion. Den verkliga marknaden var inte tillgänglig för honom. Mycket många människor över hela branschen måste ha frågat sig vad i helvete pågick, men vad är ovanligt om Katsuyama är att han inte släppte frågan: han fortsatte att gå tills han hittade ett svar. En del av det svaret kom in korrekt formulera frågan, vad i helvete är marknaden ändå Marknaden var nu en ren abstraktion. Det fanns ingen uppenbar bild att ersätta den gamla människan som bar runt i huvudet. Samma gamla biljetttejp sprang tvärs tv-skärmar, trots att det bara var en liten del av den faktiska handeln. Marknadsexperter rapporteras fortfarande från New York Stock Exchange, trots att handel inte längre hände där. För att en marknadsexpert verkligen ska komma in på New York Stock Exchange behöver hed att klättra inuti en lång svart stack av datorservrar som är låsta inuti en fästning bevakad av en liten armé av tungt beväpnade män och snabba tyska herdar i Mahwah, New Jersey. Om han ville ha en överblick över aktiemarknaden eller till och med handeln i ett enda företag som IBM hed måste inspektera datorutskrifterna från tolv andra offentliga utbyten spridda över norra New Jersey, plus register över de privata erbjudanden som inträffade inom det växande antalet mörka pooler. Om han försökte göra det, hörde han snart att det inte fanns någon datorutskrift. Åtminstone ingen tillförlitlig en. Det verkade inte möjligt att bilda en mental bild av den nya finansiella marknaden. Vi vill att en marknad ska vara folk som köper och säljer till och från varandra, på en viss fysisk plats, helst med synliga priser. På den här nya marknaden är de främsta aktörerna inte människor, men algoritmer sker den verkliga åtgärden inom datorer i utbytena och den gamla marknaden är nu inget mer än en scenuppsättning vars huvuduppgift är att vara bakgrund för nyhetsberättelser om aktiemarknad. När det gäller priserna flyttade de när man försökte agera på dem, och som Lewis säger, är det problemet med de mörka poolerna, som i själva verket är privata aktiemarknader, ägs för det mesta av stora investeringsbanker, vars hela funktionen är att utföra affärer ute av sikte på den bredare allmänheten: ingen vet whos köp, ingen vet whos säljer, och ingen vet de betalade priserna. Mannen som gjorde det mesta för att hjälpa Katsuyama förstå denna nya marknad var en irländsk telekomingenjör som heter Ronan Ryan. Ryans jobb innebär ledningen inom börserna, och han förklarade för Katsuyama hur viktig hastighet har blivit för handelsprocessen. Alla börser tillåter nu samlokalisering, där privata företag installerar sin egen datorutrustning utöver utbyten egna datorer, för att dra nytta av den lilla fördelen som denna närhet ger i handelstiden. Som Ryan talade fyllde han enorma tomma utrymmen på Brads mentala karta på de finansiella marknaderna. Vad han sa berättade för mig att vi behövde bryr oss om mikrosekunder och nanosekunder, sa Brad. Den amerikanska börsen var nu ett klasssystem, rotat i hastighet, av haves och har-nots. De har betalat för nanosekunder, de har inte haft någon aning om att en nanosekund hade värde. Havet hade en perfekt utsikt över marknaden, de har inte såg marknaden alls. Vad som en gång var världens mest offentliga, mest demokratiska, finansiella marknad hade blivit, i anda, något som en privat visning av ett stulet konstverk. Hastigheten är så mycket eftersom den nya finansiella tekniken innebär att man utnyttjar minutavvikelser i pris som existerar endast för bråkdelar av en sekund. Använda dem och, ibland, skapa dem också. Med hjälp av samlokalisering sniffar högfrekventa handlare inkommande beställningar gjorda av människor som Katsuyama. I mikrosekunder (dvs miljonder av en sekund) köper deras datoralgoritmer andelen innan ordern har genomförts och säljs sedan till den ursprungliga köparen för en liten men garanterad vinst. Det var anledningen till att Katsuyama inte kunde köpa aktier till det pris som visades på skärmen: han var framåt. Detta är ett av de främsta sätten som högfrekventa handlare gör sina pengar. De andra två teknikerna som utpekas av Lewis är rabattarbitrage och långsam marknadsarbitrage. Rabatteringsarbitrage uppstår när HFT-företag drar nytta av det faktum att vissa utbyten nu betalar för trafik genom att styra branscher i enlighet därmed för att tjäna pengar från backbacks. Långsam marknadsarbitrage innebär att HFT-företag utnyttjar små lags i prisrörelsen. Tala om att marknaden för PampG-aktier är 80-80,01, och köpare och säljare sitter på båda sidor på alla börser. En stor säljare kommer in på NYSE och knackar priset ner till 79,98-79,99. Högfrekventa handlare köper på NYSE på 79,99 och säljer på alla andra börser vid 80, innan marknaden ändras officiellt. Detta hände hela dagen, varje dag och genererade mer miljarder dollar än de andra strategierna kombinerat. Och allt detta, Lewis klargör, är den nya normala det precis som den moderna marknaden fungerar. Reaktionen på Flash Boys har varit explosiv. Lewis är den typ av författare som skapar sitt eget väder-system, och boken gick rakt upp till toppen av bästsäljarlistan på båda sidor av Atlanten. (I USA har det bara blivit förskjutet av Thomas Pikettys Capital i det 21: a århundradet. Vi lever verkligen i intressanta tider.) I veckan för publicering tillkännagavs förfrågningar om högfrekvenshandel av US Justice Department, FBI, Securities and Exchange Commission, New York Attorney General, Commodities Futures Trading Commission och Europeiska unionen (några av dessa augusti organ hävdade att deras förfrågningar var redan på gång när boken kom ut). Bara Lewis kunde ha haft denna inverkan, precis som bara Lewis kunde ha skrivit boken i första hand. Det blir svårare och svårare för utomstående att få tillgång till finansvärlden och de involverade personerna gör ett bra jobb att bete sig som om de har mycket att frukta från granskning. Människor pratar med Lewis eftersom han en gång var insider själv, för att han får den, den mest elusiva och värdefulla saken för alla som skriver om en sluten värld och också för att, eftersom institutionerna har kontrollerande och hemlighetsfullare, många av dem som arbetar för dem har blivit mer cyniska om dem och mer villiga att avslöja sina inre arbeten, så länge som deras namn inte är knutna till uppenbarelserna. Ingen annan skulle ha uppnått denna grad av godhet från de människor som verkligen vet vad som hänt. Det var intressant att observera reaktionen från flash-pojkarna själva. Det finns tre huvudlinjer av motattack (jag lämnar ut de som försöker smita Katsuyama och hans motiv). Den första är att hävda att HFT tillhandahåller värdefull service på marknaderna genom att leverera likviditet. Detta är ett magiskt ord i samband med ekonomi. Likviditet var ett av orden Wall Street folk kastade runt, Lewis skriver, när de ville att konversationen skulle sluta, och för hjärnor att gå döda och för att alla frågor skulle upphöra. På marknaderna är likviditet, vilket betyder närvaro av villiga köpare och säljare på båda sidor av alla framtida transaktioner hela tiden, nära ett absolut gott. Men Lewis handlar snabbt med tanken att HFT är en genuin likviditetskälla. Han föreslår en hypotetisk enhet, Scalpers Inc. en lagligt skyldig närvaro vid alla marknadstransaktioner. Varje gång du går för att köpa en andel i någonting, är du front-run av Scalpers Inc. som köper aktierna först och sedan säljer dem till dig. Scalpers Inc. är förbjudet att ta någon risk och köper eller säljer aldrig ett lager utan att den andra änden av transaktionen redan finns: det handlar endast för att störa handel som skulle ha hänt utan det. Det framgår av detta tankeexperiment att Scalpers Inc. inte ger någon verklig likviditet till marknaden, eftersom det inte tar någon risk. Det är inte en marknadsförare, en finansiell grundskola som garanterar att man köper och säljer på en marknad, för att säkerställa att marknaden alltid fanns. Scalpers Inc. är mindre en marknadstillverkare än en konstig sorts marknadsbelastning. Dessutom har Scalpers Inc. ett incitament att öka volatiliteten på marknaden, eftersom prisförändringar alltid är fördelaktiga för det: Ju fler priser som jigglar, ju fler möjligheter finns det att tjäna pengar från rörelsen. Detta tar hand om likviditetsargumentet. Flash-pojkarna gör ytterligare krav i sitt eget försvar. De mest ytliga plausibla problemen sprider sig, gapet mellan de priser som något köps och säljs på. I PampG-exemplet ovan är spridningen 80-80,01. Denna spridning är garanterad vinst för det börs där aktien säljs, och som sådan är en slags transaktionsavgift eller skatt på all marknadsaktivitet. Ju lägre spridningen desto bättre är marknaden för deltagarna. Högfrekventa handlare pekar på att spridningen har minskat mycket under det senaste decenniet eller så och hävdar att krediten för den säger att den extraordinära spridningen av sin superhöga datahandelsverksamhet är den främsta orsaken till att spridningarna har kommit ner. I sin starka form är påståendet att denna minskning av spridningar utgör en besparing för den vanliga investeraren vilket mer än utgör den vinst som HFT-publiken gör genom att köra piggyback på andra människors transaktioner. Problemet med denna påstående är att eftersom HFT-handlare är så hemlighetsfulla erbjuder de inga data för att stödja den. Ja, spridda har fallit. Majoriteten av hösten hände under de första åren av detta århundrade, eftersom datorer tog allt större roll på marknaderna. Vi skulle rimligen förvänta oss att det skulle leda till en kostnadsminskning, och därför är ett fall i spridda detsamma som att använda datorer, ur kundens synvinkel. HFT-spelarna vill ta krediten utan att ge några bevis för sin roll i vad som hände. En annan påstående från HFT-lobbyn är att det mesta av deras verksamhet inte är i förväg. De måste säga det här, eftersom det faktum att front-running är oförsvarlig är, som nörd säger, IOTTMCO (Intuitively Obvious till den mest informella observeraren). Här är det dock inga problem med data. HFT-possen talar om algo-sniffing, dvs detektering av andra folksalgoritmer som verkar på marknaden och ger vinster från dem. Teknikerna är proprietära och superhemliga, och försvaret kan bara monteras i allmänna termer. Det är uppenbart att ganska mycket av vad HFT-industrin gör är inte front-running, och kan ses som den legitima aktiviteten hos välinformerade insiders som tjänar pengar på varandra. Det är tillåtet under vad jag gillar att ringa 10 CC-regeln: Stora pojkar gråter inte. Men igen är branschen så hemlig att den inte kan försvara sig. Lewis citerar en näringsidkare som flyttat från ett jobb med topphemlig tillgång vid Pentagon till ett välkänt HFT-företag, Citadel. För att komma in i Pentagon och in i mitt område tog det två badge swipes. En att komma in i byggnaden och en att komma in i mitt område. Gissa hur många badge swipes det tog för att komma till min plats på Citadel Five. Allt man kan göra inför ett sådant informationsunderskott är att erbjuda en vag, godartad våg, som påven från balkongen vid St Peters, och tillkännage att det är möjligt att några av vad några av er gör inte är helt onda. I avsaknad av bevis, data, berättelser och särdrag är det svårt att gå längre i branschförsvaret än det. Resultatet är att flash-pojkarna erbjuder en fallstudie i två olika typer av oförklarlighet: den typ som uppstår när det du gör är uppenbarligen fel, och den sort som uppstår på grund av en självständig sekretessklausul. Flash Boys har lobbed en mycket stor, mycket splashy rock i HFT damm. Det är klart att saker som kommer att gå på exakt som de har varit frågan är vad som kommer att förändras, och om förändring av något faktiskt kommer att förändras någonting. Lewiss föredragna lösning har sin hjälte, Brad Katsuyama. Den kanadensiska banken har utvecklat en aktieutbyte, IEX, som bygger på en fördröjning på 350 mikrosekunder, som är 0,00035 sekunder på all handel, vilket innebär att allt köp och försäljning sker med samma hastighet och högfrekventa aktiviteter av den främre spårningen arent möjlig. Om du köper från IEX, köper du ren när du klickar på Enter, det pris du ser är det pris du betalar. Om den här utbytet pågår, vilket det visar tidiga tecken på, kommer de andra utbytena antingen att konkurreras ut ur affärer eller kommer att behöva förändra sin praxis för att förhindra att kunder utnyttjas, det är tanken, hur som helst. Det här är en lösning för marknaden purister på problemet som härrör från HFT, och det skulle vara ett intressant motfall till kreditkrisen och dess efterdyning. I det fallet skapade marknaden ett problem som inte kunde lösa sig i stället skattebetalare bailed ut alla deltagare, och blev sedan ursäkta från rummet när festen började igen. Om Katsuyamas nya utbyte rensar upp HFT, skulle det vara ett elegant (och lite förfallet) exempel på en ren marknadsfix för ett marknadsproblem. Den andra möjliga lösningen skulle innebära reglering. För en början är det möjligt att de aktiviteter som beskrivs i Lewiss boken är lagliga. Folk som kör HFT-strategier har köpt rumfulla dyra advokater för att berätta för dem att vad de gör är okej. Men principen om vilken mycket marknads lagstiftning vilar är att det är olagligt att handla på grundval av information som inte är tillgänglig för allmänheten. Det faktum att det uppenbara priset inte är det faktiska priset: passar den lagliga definitionen av icke-offentlig information. Id har trodde det gör det. Om justitieavdelningen håller med om det blir blod. Dessutom finns det utsikter till nya lagar att återställa flash-pojkarna. Lewis är inte ett fan av denna handlingslinje, på det robusta grunderna att det var lagstiftning som skapade många av möjligheterna till HFT i första hand. Den främsta skyldige var en 2005 års lag, som antogs 2007, kallad Reg NMS (National Market System Regulation). Det här välsignade och rimliga ljudet av lagstiftning utgjorde att skydda kunder från att springa framåt. (Ha) Tanken var att komma överens om en nationellt accepterad standard för aktiekurser, NBBO eller National Best Bid och Offer, vilket skulle fastställas genom att samla priset för en aktie i alla offentliga utbyten. Det samlade priset är det officiella priset. Svårt att inte hålla med det i princip. Problemet är att tekniken bakom NBBO är skrattsam långsam. Securities Information Processor, eller Sip, den dator som beräknar NBBO, kunde ligga bakom HFT industrins datorer med så mycket som 25 millisekunder, eller 0,025 sekunder. Enligt standarderna för högfrekvent handel är det geologiskt. Det var denna laggardlighet som skapade mycket av den moderna HFT-industrin, genom att i själva verket ange att det officiella priset alltid skulle vara sent, långsamt och ber om exploatering av de snabbare deltagarna på marknaden. Det här är en del av ett konsekvent mönster i den moderna finansvärlden, där lagstiftning introducerar komplexitet och komplexitet ger chansen att göra vinst. Om du har supersmarta människor som har kraftfulla incitament att spendera hela dagen varje dag och utarbetar sätt att spela systemet, kommer systemet att spelas. Lewis har en teori om varför så många bakomliggande trollkarlar bakom HFT är ryska: Sovjetstyrd ekonomi var hemsk och komplicerad och slog också med kryphål, skriver han. Allt var knappt allting var också gettable, om du visste hur man hämtar det. Utsikterna till reglering är ytterligare dolda av det faktum att branschen lobbar hårt mot det. Ett EU-förslag om att städa upp flash-handel hade en enkel lösning: en lagligt mandatfördröjning på 0,5 sekunder på all handel. Det, som Katsuyamas IEX, är en brutal men effektiv enhet som skulle bryta de flesta tricks industrin använder. Tyvärr har idén blivit utdöd död av Europeiska värdepappers - och marknadsmyndigheten. Istället har ESMA meddelat att det kommer upp några minuter med sina egna förslag, som ska antas 2016. Låt oss hoppas att alla inblandade har läst Lewiss bok. En av de mest skickliga sakerna om Flash Boys är storleken på sin ram: Lewis berättar sin historia och låter läsaren dra sina egna slutsatser om dess betydelse och konsekvenser. Han håller fokusen stram. Det är en anledning till att boken har gjort så bra: ivrig vänster och glada fri marknadsförare kan helt och hållet hålla med allting i det. Om du vill kan du dock se stora frågor som lumbering i bakgrunden av skottet. En av dem är: i vilken utsträckning är historien om flash-pojkarna bara flash-pojkarnas berättelse och i vilken utsträckning är det en historia om den moderna kapitalismens karaktär I en New York Times upprättade Paul Krugman att den viktiga punkten är inte så mycket specifika Lewiss historia, som den stora bilden av en dysfunktionell och rovande finanssektor: Oroa dig inte debatten om exakt hur mycket skada högfrekvenshandel gör. Det är hela finansbranschen, inte bara den delen, det undergräver vår ekonomi och vårt samhälle. Lewis skulle vara oense med den obemannade delen, men jag misstänker att jag är överens med resten. Historien om finans som han började berätta i sin första bok, Liars Poker. den överflödiga och oroliga berättelsen om sin tid som bandförsäljare vid Salomon Brothers, och fortsatte med sin kreditkrisbok, The Big Short. blir stadigt mörkare. I proletan till The Big Short. Lewis skrev att när han satte sig ner för att skriva sin första bok, hoppades jag att ett ljust barn på Ohio State University som verkligen ville vara en oceanograf skulle läsa min bok, spyra erbjudandet från Goldman Sachs och sätta ut till havet. Istället, och naturligtvis, sex månader efter Liars Poker publicerades, var jag knädjup i brev från studenter vid Ohio State University som ville veta om jag hade några andra hemligheter att dela om Wall Street. Theyd läste min bok som en handbok. Efter att ha slutat Flash Boys. Jag tyckte det var svårt att inte tänka på de saknade oceanograferna, datorns genier och ingenjörer och fysiker och entreprenörer, alla de briljanta sinnena, all den passion och energi som försvinner i det svarta hålet av pengar, förlorade för allt mer produktiva och intressanta saker som vi människor kan göra. Det är svårt att inte känna en känsla av förlust när du tänker på vad dessa människor skulle ha gjort, om de inte hade sugits in i företaget för att tjäna pengar ur pengar. Om vi någonsin får tillräckligt med avstånd för att se tillbaka med någon känsla av perspektiv på den moderna finansens delirium, tror jag att det här är det som kommer att stå klart ut: den känslan av mänskligt och intellektuellt avfall. Det borde vara tillräckligt dystert för att komma igång, men Flash Boys lämnade mig med en extra tanke. Historien om högfrekvenshandel är mer eller mindre samma sak som Thomas Piketty berättar om. Lewis handlar om berättande och Piketty handlar om analys och data, men dessa två stora böcker om modern kapitalism är båda redogör för hur kapital blev mer och mer hänsynslös hur den rikaste blev ännu rikare. Du kan väl se Flash Boys som en fallstudie i historien om kapital i det 21: a århundradet. Det är frestande att tro att människor som tror på det här sättet så småningom drabbas av deras uppkomst, skrev Lewis om Wall Street, i sin epilog till 2010 års återgivande av Liars Poker. De gör det inte. De blir bara rikare. Jag är säker på att de flesta av dem dör fet och glad. Donald MacKenzie skrev om algo-sniffing i LRB den 19 maj 2011. John Lanchester s roman Capital var anpassad av BBC och vann International Emmy Award för bästa mini-serien. Kontakta oss för frågor om rättigheter och frågor. John Lanchester skriver att principen om vilken mycket marknads lagstiftning vilar är att den är olaglig att handla på grundval av information som inte är tillgänglig för allmänheten (LRB, 5 juni). Inte exakt. Förenta staternas regler för insiderhandel förbjuder köp eller försäljning av säkerheter för emittenter på grundval av väsentlig icke-offentlig information om den säkerheten eller emittenten i strid med en förtroende eller förtroende som direkt eller indirekt skyldig eller olikt, till emittenten av den säkerheten eller aktieägarna i den emittenten eller till någon annan person som är källan till den materiella icke-offentliga informationen. Lanchesters förslag att all handel på icke-offentlig information är eller på något sätt borde vara olaglig skulle sträcka sig långt utöver högfrekvent handel. Det skulle kriminalisera ett jordbrukares beslut att köpa värdepapper eller lager baserat på egna observationer av hans grödans hälsa. Problemet är att den information som ligger till grund för så kallade front-running strategier är lika offentlig som hälsan hos en jordbrukares gröda. Högfrekventa handlare är inte skyldiga till de personer de dra nytta av om de gjorde det, skulle den kvasi-kontradiktoriska principen bakom moderna marknader (alla som söker en vinst baserad på ofullständig information) vända sig på huvudet. Walker Boyd Albuquerque, New Mexico Mer av John Lanchester Relaterade artiklar Relaterade kategorier Övriga alternativ TV Review: 8216Hunting Hitler8217 5 november, 2015 08:00 PT I politiken är therersquos en oskriven regel att den som förutspår Hitler bör förlora argumentet. Samma borde egentligen gälla tv, eftersom kanalen fortfarande kallas History ndash av skäl som förblir alltmer smutsiga och svårt att motivera ndash trotsa ldquoHunting Hitler, rdquo en åtta delarserie som ägnas åt nyligen släppta dokument som förmodligen höjer möjligheterna nazisten ledare flydde Tyskland, i motsats till att dö i en bunker. Seriöst, killar, whatrsquos next, ldquoHitlernadordquo Serien är härledd från 700 sidor av FBI-material, avklassificerad 2014, vilket tyder på att byrået fortsatte att undersöka frågan om Adolf Hitler faktiskt hade överlevt andra världskriget och flydde till Argentina. Och uppenbarligen, thatrsquos en tantalizing linje av förfrågan som har ansträngt konspirationsteorier i årtionden. ldquoHunting Hitler, rdquo fortsätter emellertid att trivialisera ämnet genom att behandla det som någon annan verklighetsvision ndash TNTrsquos ldquoCold Justice, bara rdquo med mamman av alla 70 år gamla kalla fall, en som ibland involverar en föregångare av massmordsmord. Söker en patina av respektability, tillverkarna ansluter CIA veteran Bob Baer. vem gav grunden för filmen ldquoSyriana, rdquo och verkar fortfarande äta ute på det faktum att George Clooney spelade honom. Minst Baer låter relativt nykter och insisterar på att han inte har någon dagordning förutom att ldquoFor en gång och alla, bosätta sig på den här jävla saken. rdquo Efter det blir ldquoHunting Hitlerrdquo bara en annan dumt verklighetshow med ett spricklag av utredare som nästan direkt blinkar av till Argentina, jaga ner leder det som i den första timmen lägger till en hel del ingenting. Faktum är att om tittarna skulle ta ett skott av alkohol varje gång någon använder en fras som ldquoThere kunde ha varit hellip rdquo eller ldquoTherersquos en chans att Hitler kanske har kommit hit hellip rdquo eller ldquoIf var det faktiskt en bunker hellip, rdquo de skulle vara plastered av den andra eller tredje kommersiella pausen. Desperat att skapa en känsla av spänning, fortsätter laget att prata med argentinier som tittar på dem som deyrsquore galen, samtidigt som de använder högteknologiska gizmos som ldquoground-penetrating radarrdquo ndash avsett att avslöja bevis på en hemlig bunker ndash som lika bra kan vara Monty Pythonrsquos maskin som går ldquobing. rdquo Det finns också gott om referenser till sökandet efter Osama bin Laden, vilket egentligen inte är direkt analogt med whatrsquos transpiring här. Baer håller påminna publiken hur dödligt seriös det här är allt och säger på en gång, ldquoItrsquos inte en film. Det här är en riktig utredning. rdquo Kanske så, men itrsquos klädd på ett sätt som gör det svårt att skilja från ett antal serier på kanaler som AampE eller Investigation Discovery, medan man cyniskt handlar utanför Hitlerrsquos namn, vilket har tillräckligt med intresse för att kunna göra detta en framgångsrik framgång. (Historien konstaterar att programmet kommer att flyga i mer än 180 länder.) På mer pragmatiska villkor, baserat på öppnaren, är det bara svårt att föreställa sig hur producenterna eventuellt kan vrida ytterligare sju timmar av denna jakt. Eftersom de fördröjda stunderna kommer att innefatta en framtida episod som innebär att dyka för bevis på en U-båt som kunde ha färjat nazister från Tyskland, börjar ldquoHunting Hitlerrdquo ta på sig vatten långt innanför. TV Review: 039Hunting Hitler039 (Seriens historia, tisdag 10 november, 10 s) Produktion producerad av Karga Seven Pictures. Nickolas Nunamaker säger: Den som skrev den här kolumnen har ingen aning om historien, och det har uppenbarligen ingen omsorg. Realiserar inte att de enda SANT artefakterna som hittades i hitlerbunker var faktiskt kvinnliga i DNA. du herrn. Är en crackpot. Självklart behöver du utbilda dig själv i historien och hur det här stämmer perfekt med den undersökning som skedde i Ryssland när vi gick för att kontrollera 8220proof8221 av hitler som dödade sig själv. Jag håller fullständigt med dig. Han är inte en reporter alls. En reporter spenderar inte tid med att rapportera sina egna åsikter, speciellt om han aldrig ens såg den fina showen, vilket slöseri med att läsa denna skräp. Vad en belastning med detta program är att de inte skulle visa bilden som skulle ha gjort en stor skillnad för allmänheten att det skulle bli att se mer på showen när du hittar bevis som den måste lägga ut så att vi kan se och göra vår egen bedömning it8217s bullshit, ta programmet från sin falska tro mig. Dave från England. Captain of Industry säger: Det första avsnittet var snällt av hokey. Det etablerade showen som något som Monsterquest och Mysteryquest 8212 två visar som försökte testa 8220legends8221 och 8220mysteries8221 något disppsately. Ibland hittade de 8220monsters8221 de letade efter. Det som gör Jakt Hitler spännande. Föreställningen följer reella ledningar av FBI och CIA, och i senare årstider, andra intelligensbyråer. Utredarna har stora uppgifter, bland annat en tidigare CIA-chef och en tidigare FN-krigsförbrytare. Markpersonalen är också bra och har inkluderat mycket erfarna soldater, amerikanska marshaler, utredande journalister. Ge den här showen ett riktigt försök. Tänk på världen runt dig, och fundera på hur många nazister som släppte Tyskland. Det kan freak dig ut. Mark Fisher säger: Denna kritik av Hunting Hitler är ridiculouse. Jag är säsong 2 nu, mängden ögonvittnen ans staements från respektabla källor är häpnadsväckande. Jag anser att världen inte vill göra dessa huvudrubriker. Alltför ofta ljugas vi av de ansvariga personerna och det var den största Lie av dem alla. FBI, CIA och andra liknande organisationer skulle inte aktivt undersöka och hålla filer på detta om de inte trodde att det var sant. du har använt en person som ivolved som ett exempel. vad sägs om de andra respekterade medlemmarna i utredningsgruppen CIA, FBI, RANGERS, SPECIAL FORCES etc8230. You should work for CNN and continue spreading FAKE REPORTS David Harala says: Isn8217t it up to 8220the ratings8221 to decide what gets carried or cancelled There is so much the Govt. isn8217t telling us about a lot of things UFO8217s for instance. Credible people have come forward with experiences and witnessed sightings. Are we now to think that the FBI amp CIA unclassified documents are all BS. Lets not be led like 8220sheep8221 to Oak Island year after year as they dangle carrot after carrot. So I guess your saying nothing is real anymore Sugram22 You not gonna argue8221 but in the same sentence calling me ignorant. Translation: you dont have any arguments except bu-hu Russians are evil and repeating all the crap investigators are pulling from their asses, but regardless, you are still willing to trow an insult my way. Well, thank you very much. I will repeat, your main argument is trust this guys because Russians are evil and always lie And I am ignorant. You said: 8230to get that right u need to listen both sides, but not Russian records, this are full of lies, this Documentary already proved my point, i never believe anything what comes from Rus leaders mouths, that Rus record are lie, cause eyewitnesses werent able to say it was Hitlers body, cause body was covered Lot of hate for Russians, no logic at all, calling this reality crap documentary and repeating things investigators said as holy gospel without even thinking about it If Hitlers upper body was covered, could it be because he put a bullet trough his head Probably common decency, not wanting to make his secretaries, Magda Goebbels and other civilians to watch content of fuhrers head while carrying him out. And what about people who covered him, did they see his face. Your example of Russians lying in their history books is hilarious: in history they write how they freed us, yes they kicked Nazis out, but they used this cover to occupy us, amp Rus treated us like SH 8221 Even you said they did free you from Nazis, so turns out that ALL they said in your example was the truth, they only omitted mentioning anything about inconvenient part for them. So it is possible to find some truth in the sea of their lies after all. Bye-bye to your biggest argument. And either you or the investigators still didnt explain what is Russian motive for protecting Hitler after he killed at least 20 million of them I explained that investigators lie and how you and everyone else can easily check that in the FBI files they base their series on. They are not lying only about FBI files, they are lying constantly about everything, but its best way to check in those files for all of you who are such fan boys of the investigators because they treat those files like their holly grail and you cant dismiss those files as something tainted by Russians or Nazis or whoever8230 Once you read for yourself for example how FBI, just by inquiries through official channels, found out that Charata sighting is the hoax, or French agent from Cassino sighting is no agent at all, but actually wanted by French police, it should be crystal clear the investigators are not investigating anything but just pushing their fiction and hoping for army of brainwashed ignorant people to watch their sensationalistic crap so that they can milk it for as much seasons as possible Budget of 2 million dollars per episode in s01, who knows how much in s 02 No wonder Tim Kennedy doesnt want to go back in UFC, he said it himself money is better in reality Hell, even i f you think FBI is lying its enough to read sighting reports How the guy is explaining that some other guy heard from some guys he was commuting with about Hitlers whereabouts. Rock solid and Im ignorant, yeah Or how French agent had a long conversation with Eva Hitlers niece in Cassino in 1947. Her niece was born in 1945 apparently. I wonder why investigators didnt mention that fact. For some reason you didnt check it yourself, but instead you are still so confident in investigators and I am apparently ignorant because I dont take everything they say at face value. You apparently have high regard for this Steve Rambam guy Steve Rambam is good detective, if this would be BS he would not be part of it, so i believe this show is not BS 8221 The guy who promised the witness scared for his life that he can divulge the information to him in confidence, and then immediately told in camera to the whole world everything his informer told him That Steve Rambam No, I am ignorant, this show is no BS and that is how good detectives protect their sources. Now every new informant for Steve knows what to expect. You said: my point Democratic countries do not write history as they like it, they write truth, Buahahahaha And you call ME ignorant Are you talking about Denmark Then maybe If you talking about USA, the protector of world freedom and democracy then just remember Iraq and WMD If you are old enough to remember, Im starting to think youre not. We will not even go in all the conspiracy theories like Pearl Harbour, assassinations on JFK and his brother, 911, or all the proxy wars where they protected freedom of their citizens 10000 km from their borders Or CIA organized coups d8217tat all over the world8230 In another comment you claim: there were a lot of Tunnels leaving from Hitlers bunker, amp they showed meany ways Hitler could have escaped in season 2 ep1 they showed 1more option amp i bet they will show more escape routs, just finishes s2 ep1 You just blindly believe all the crap investigators feed you And call me ignorant You see, problem with this is that if Hitler escaped on april 21, as they claim, he could do that without using tunnels. He could have reached both Tempelhof or Gatow airport without need for any tunnel at all. By all accounts Soviets arrived on Tempelhof airfield on april 25 From the south8230 Hitlers bunker was north of Tempelhof. Why are investigators lying that Hitler needed tunnels because of all of Russian soldiers roaming around on april 21 And what about before that If he wanted to run, why not when all of his cronies except Goebbels and Bormann left Berlin and even begged him to go with them He could have organized the same scam with dental identification in Berghof for example, without risk of getting killed for real But wait a minute, you are not even claiming it was his scam, your theory is that Russians did that FOR him Im ignorant, for sure Another one of your gems: i bet that documentary that u watched is older then Hunting Hitler, their team sent the skull to lab amp there it was said its a womans skull. Man you are killing me, this is hilarious, you are really convinced this investigators are investigating something for real. Again, DNA test was done by someone else in 2009, and those people that did it said that its irrelevant because skull fragment was found whole year after the rest of remains and therefore could belong to anybody. Not to mention that we know of 2 women that ended up in that garden. Eva Hitler fits by age, but shouldnt have the bullet hole. Magda Goebbels fits by bullet hole since she shot herself there, but was 3 years older then 20-40 DNA result Not so much older, less than 10 mistake, could it be hers DNA test didnt prove that Hitler wasnt there, or that jawbone used for his identification belong to someone else. It proved only that skull fragment with bullet hole Russians found in 1946, then lost in their archive for years, only to be found in the 90s in blue box with inscription Blue Ink For Fountain Pens belongs to some woman. This is so funny, I can not believe you wrote this: history books have not yet been overwritten cause their investigation isnt finished yet, Actually you are so naive it is hard for me to laugh when I feel sorry for you. Again, you really think that they investigate stuff for real. Poor guy No, no, producers have their story to sell to audience, hired actors are there to give everything some appearance of legitimacy, South American stories that are not misrepresented FBI letters are just recycled theories from Gerrard Williams and other conspiracy books and only the evidence that can be presented in the way to fit their narrative is included, everything else is ignored Thats why this is reality show and no documentary. No history book will ever be overwritten or rewritten because of this investigation. I could go on, but I feel a bit tired. Feel free to keep parroting everything investigators say, keep on explaining to everyone that Russians lie 100 of time and by all means keep calling me ignorant Coming from you its more of a compliment. U: But in every effing comment your biggest argument was that they always lie, and even in your example its clear that they told at least half of truth. Smart man can deduct what is truth and what not, not so smart man yells they always lie. Furthermore in the case of your example everybody knew what was the truth and what not, regardless what was written in history books. Russians themselves, occupied people in eastern Europe, western nations, the whole world, everybody knew And you are waving with that like its some big revelation. Your personal preferences are completely irrelevant, someone who collaborated with Russians and benefited from that would disagree with you, so would someone Germans didnt like, and you dont even know how would Germans treat you after the war. I bet most of your countryman would prefered neither Germans nor Russians, but to be free instead. Me: i mention this a lot, cause there are ppl in this world who believe Russians side of history, i bet Steven Segal believes it to cause he Believes Putin, cause he showed support for Putin Hes concert in my country was cancelled ppl were pissed amp did not want a communists friend in our country, so they said we wont come to the concert, so they had no choice but to cancel :D, so in case i mention this, i do this if topic touches Russia in some ways Ashley W Newton says: Stalin killed more of his own people than the Germans ever thought about You said: my point Democratic countries do not write history as they like it, they write truth, Buahahahaha And you call ME ignorant Are you talking about Denmark Then maybe If you talking about USA, the protector of world freedom and democracy then just remember Iraq and WMD If you are old enough to remember, Im starting to think youre not. We will not even go in all the conspiracy theories like Pearl Harbour, assassinations on JFK and his brother, 911, or all the proxy wars where they protected freedom of their citizens 10000 km from their borders Or CIA organized coups dtat all over the world well that was CIA amp even CIA was Pawn in this game, its all cause this Iraq war was profitable to some1, i have said, as long as there are corrupt ppl in this world conspiracy is possible, same goes for JFK, we don8217t know who the conspirators were, 911 is as it was told, unless some1 was hiding small details about SH materials used when it was build, but i don8217t believe all the conspiracy theories out there, a lot are just crazy talk from paranoid ppl well the ignorant part was not meant as a insult, but if that8217s how u see it, not my problem, it was mean more like, if u want to keep ur head under the sand go ahead, close ur eyes to the truth amp think its a lie even after they proved that its how it really happened I do nt understand how you can twist the facts so much. Guess you learned from the best You accuse me of keeping my head under the sand and closing my eyes to the truth even after I begged you twice NOT TO TRUST MY WORDS, but to CHECK YOURSELF in those bloody FBI files to see if they are telling the truth about them and are they presenting specific documents from there as they were written. You say investigators proved something Obviously you dont know what the word prove means. It means demonstrate the truth or existence of (something) by evidence or argument. It doesnt mean repeat something gazillion times or tamper with evidence or just lie. Since this show started I read through all of FBI files, I investigated everything I could find on skull fragment, I read 5 or 6 biographies of the people that were in bunker till the end Oh, and I watched great documentary The Day Hitler Died, lots of witnesses from bunker taped in 1948 by one of the Nuremberg judges You know those witnesses that your great investigators completely ignored, there is even one who saw Hitlers face. Before the show I read dozens of books on Hitler specifically, probably hundreds on WWII and watched countless documentaries on the subject. In my youth I read a number of books on Hitlers escape, some conspiracy, some purely fictional. I dont mind a good conspiracy so I tried to find some merit in them, but unfortunately no, they never had any. Nothing is changed. Only skull DNA and FBI files are newer stuff, more or less everything else investigators are triumphantly discovering I heard before. From everything you commented your only encounter with Hitler and his destiny were evil Russian influenced history books and investigators whom you simply worship and refuse to check any of their dogma. Earth to Sugram22, are you absolutely sure Im the one who has his eyes closed to the truth u: Your example of Russians lying in their history books is hilarious Me: how is it hilarious when its the truth, they do say they saved us, freed us when its the opposite, life was better under ger power then it was under rus power, i have mentioned how rus treated us But in every effing comment your biggest argument was that they always lie, and even in your example its clear that they told at least half of truth. Smart man can deduct what is truth and what not, not so smart man yells they always lie. Furthermore in the case of your example everybody knew what was the truth and what not, regardless what was written in history books. Russians themselves, occupied people in eastern Europe, western nations, the whole world, everybody knew And you are waving with that like its some big revelation. Your personal preferences are completely irrelevant, someone who collaborated with Russians and benefited from that would disagree with you, so would someone Germans didnt like, and you dont even know how would Germans treat you after the war. I bet most of your countryman would prefered neither Germans nor Russians, but to be free instead. i don8217t even know is it hate, cause i feel absolutely nothing writing this, about evil rus government that i said that history books have been overwritten, that is metaphor to that old history facts are proven wrong before, long ago we all knew that Columbus discovered America, but new we know that Vikings were in America 500 before him Yes Vikings were there 500 y before Columbus. Yes their tribe knew something about some land west of Greenland But following that logic we have first people that discovered and settled America some 20000 years ago. Since after that they walked over Bering strait back and forth always when the conditions were favorable its logical to assume their tribe knew of some land across the strait Columbus didnt share the info on his discovery only with his isolated tribe like previous discoverers. Politically correct Americans today are ashamed of the way Columbus treated native people, and of all the bad things that happened to native people because of his discovery and are trying to push Vikings in his place, but unfortunately Vikings impact on America is few archeological sites, and Columbus discovery for European powers impact is whats made Americas as we know them today. With all the bad stuff that happened because of it unfortunately. So history books are not changed in a way you are insinuating that Columbus is overwritten by Vikings. No, Vikings are just added as a side note. We can not change history, only learn from it and try not to repeat the same mistakes. Anyway, even if you were right, it doesnt work by some magic automatism, they changed something in history books, so they have to change this also because I say so and my friends in this show says so and I believe them because Rambam is awesome And Russians lie Im sure that you could change history books following that messed up logic if you were some dictator, but as long as history books are written by historians your friends investigators must first prove the claims, and with all their lies and deceptions they fail miserably at that. U: And either you or the investigators still didnt explain what is Russian motive for protecting Hitler after he killed at least 20 million of them Me: as long as there are corrupt ppl in this world conspiracy is possible, for one they were paid off by Nazia, some military guys, second they had Germany so they didn8217t care in what rat hole he went in to hiding, cause communists don8217t care how meany of their ppl u killed, they are in it for self benefit, in it to communistic ways for self benefit, they only pretend to care about their ppl, so to them it doesn8217t matter where Hitler is amp to close the book on this they make world believe that Hitler died - Sugram22 wrote: as long as there are corrupt ppl in this world conspiracy is possible, for one they were paid off by Nazia, some military guys, second they had Germany so they didnt care in what rat hole he went in to hiding, cause communists dont care how meany of their ppl u killed, they are in it for self benefit, in it to co mmunistic ways for self benefit, they only pretend to care about their ppl, so to them it doesnt matter where Hitler is amp to close the book on this they make world believe that Hitler died 8212 Aha, great, so if we know that Stalin sent to gulags nearly all of his officers before the war, red army was full of political officers that spied for him and everyone was rightfully terrified to do something wrong and piss of Stalin, then its obvious that could happened only with his approval So let me get this strait, your theory is that Nazis gave money to Stalin to let Hitler escape. And stories how he hated Hitler was just a distraction. Brilliant. Did you even watch Hunting Hitler Im starting to doubt that. Your idols mentioned that Stalin said that Hitler escaped and blamed western powers. So what that does to your theory that evil Russians always lie When they lie During Stalin or after Stalin Basically if your Idols are right and Hitler escaped, you are saying that the biggest, baddest, meanest communist in Soviet history, the one who actually occupied you after he freed you of Nazis, that comrade Stalin was telling the truth about Hitler after all. Besides that, you talk of corrupt people and even after I explained how much money is in this show you dont even consider the possibility that they are corrupted by it Interesting. Let me guess, because Rambam is so cool Do you know him personally or you are just repeating his praises for himself from the show I think this is an excellent series, the proof is there and it needs to be told and the history books corrected I think it is a very good show. Hitler did survive and was seen in South America. Happily, they are not twisting the facts like the History Books do. That you do not like the show is your own preference, but many people do like the show. True factual history is uncovered repeatedly, but history books are never changed to fit the correct facts. There was a book published that documented all these Hitler facts, but it was banned from America. Hunting Hitler is way overdue. Show is awful. Hitler didnt survive. Every famous person that didnt die of old age was seen alive after death, Hitler, Elvis, Michael Jackson FYI in FBI files investigators present as holy scripture in this show Hitler was seen in USA as much, or more than in South America. I found at least 3 sightings in Washington DC. They ARE twisting every fact more than anyone in history. Just check how they present FBI files as a whole, and even specific stories they took from there. If that is not twisting I dont know what is. Not to mention telling us only what fits their purpose about skull DNA test, or ignoring all the witnesses that knew and had contact with Hitler, but then asking us to take testimony of a woman who was told that she was leaving food for Hitler as rock solid evidence. Or some stupid tunnels or bunkers as the evidence For what That Hitler was vampire and sunlight would kill him. AND we have to believe their word and some guy on machine saying there is something there for the existence of those tunnels Only once they even tried to dig for tunnel, found few rocks of some old wall, declared it tunnel and now we have believe it is connected in some way with Hitler. Hilarious. If this was comedy show it would be the best ever. They just count on the fact that there are a lot of gullible naive people who was bad at school and would be happy if someone proved their teachers were wrong, but are too lazy to check facts they fabricate in the show. Or just dont know how to Google FBI Hitler. If you like something that doesnt make it automatically true and fit for history book corrections. I dont know what book was banned in America, but there are plenty of books that claimed Hitler escaped here or there, including one written by chubby guy with silk scarf that is parading as one of independent investigators in this shit show. David Otto says: History is almost always written by the victors. Same was true about WWII. All the newly released documents show that Britain, France and the US didn8217t believe Russia from the beginning. I think the show if very good in showing the possibilities of Hitler and other Nazis escaping Germany. One of the biggest facts is that South America has a huge population of Germans after the war. Why was this Because a lot of those countries were from sympathetic to what the Nazis were doing. Even before this show, there have been an extraordinary amount of proof of Hitler, and also Bormann, escaping to South America. I believe that this show puts a lot of the reports in perspective by actually showing eye witness accounts and also physical evidence of Nazi presence in other countries. not completely true, others write truth, but communists (maybe dictators to) write lies no matter did they win or lose, they want to write in history that they were the good guys amp heroes, but ofc even the others can8217t know awry detail so some things they write as they think it was amp later history investigators prove they were wrong, amp then later some1 proves that they amp also the investigators both were wrong, history is like this, some details get always overwritten in future, cause theology evolves amp we can find out past things easier but i agree with u on the rest of ur txt my point Democratic countries do not write history as they like it, they write truth, i wrote before, below in other posts how communistic power is Brian Mitchell says: I have just seen the episode that discusses Hitler8217s escape to Argentina. One single items supposedly excavated at a site in Argentina suggested a FRAUD 8212 a piece of crockery (gravy jug or boat) which was inscribed 8220Made in Germany8221 LITERALLY. Why would Hitler use such an item Why wasn8217t it inscribed in German or in Argentinian Americans always seem to be able to 8220create8221 this sort of program to sensationalise their 8220theories8221. Why are documents from the CIA or whatever partly in German but the highlighted items are in English You obviously weren8217t watching closely, dummy. There was a litany of unearthed German paraphernalia at the archaeologists house they visited. You clearly have a low comprehension level, so stick to watching cartoons. Chris Dunlap says: Well it wasn8217t hard to find out the answer to your question. The likely reason why German products are stamped in English, is because it was an English law that mandated it. If German companies wanted to sell in the English market, they had to state that their product was made in Germany. ofc Argentina would say this, cause they feel shame of what their forefathers did like Germans, ger feel the same thing, why do u think they don8217t want to talk about this SH amp why do u think ger wanted to close the case of that one Nazi (forgot hes name) fast that they dug up the grave in America amp took the bones back to ger amp placed the bones where they have looked for hes body before amp said we found him so case closed, cause of feel of shame they want to cover it up, that8217s why so meany Bash them online amp saying its BS hoax amp stuff some cause they are Nazis themselves, a country that faces a possibility that some1 discovers that this country hided Nazis, u can8217t believe what that country say8217s, cause no1 want to be associated with Nazis amp they do anything to prove otherwise I was intrigued until I saw another Documentary stating that the skull remains the Russians have has indeed been identified by Dentistry records to be Adolf Hitlers. The man was surrounde d and no way he got out of Germany alive, end of story. Ups cause of the sound issue in the video i miss herd that, MI6 file said that Pilot confessed to flying Hitler to Denmark day after the war, when i said he organized hes war from out of the country was my theory cause who else would lead, i watch it online season 2 e1 they get MI6 files that say one Nazi confessed that he flew Hitler away day before the war, so he ran even before the war to somewhere amp organized hes war from out of the country, its not yet confirmed, but that8217s what clues say i bet that by 2030 its confirmed to be true amp history books are overwritten u say he had no way out, that sentence also makes me laugh, there were a lot of Tunnels leaving from Hitlers bunker, amp they showed meany ways Hitler could have escaped in season 2 ep1 they showed 1more option amp i bet they will show more escape routs, just finishes s2 ep1 i8217m starting to doubt that u have watched Hunting Hitler at all, if that8217s the case u have no right to talk about this, if u have seen full seaon1 u have the right, but only a little :), to get that right u need to listen both sides, but not Russian records, this are full of lies, this Documentary already proved my point, i never believe anything what comes from Rus leaders mouths, that Rus record are lie, cause eyewitnesses weren8217t able to say it was Hitlers body, cause body was covered if u believe the Russian records ur a idiot, sry i just had to say this cause that8217s how i feel strongly in history Russia write how they freed us, yes they kicked Nazis out, but they used this cover to occupy us, amp Rus treated us like SH (not gonna go in to details with this) when Ger treated us well, so if i would have lived back then amp had a choice between 2 evils i would rather side with Ger amp Beat Rus ass Communistic RUssia Writes History as they like it amp not what really happened also tests were made in US on the skull amp tests say its a Woman8217s Skull i bet that documentary that u watched is older then Hunting Hitler, their team sent the skull to lab amp there it was said its a woman8217s skull be careful u could still find a lot of BS amp history books have not yet been overwritten cause their investigation isn8217t finished yet, but that i can tell u, first it was just conspiracy theory amp then came out the PC files that supported this conspiracy theory amp they started to investigate this, i am not conspiracy theorist, but i believe that at least 1 of conspiracy theorys are true, cause as long as there are corrupt ppl in this world conspiracy is possible, u can make some conclusions when u finish season 1, i just did, amp i have seen amp heard enough to convince me that Hitler got away amp didn8217t die in the bunker i am not conspiracy theorist, but i believe that at least 1 of conspiracy theory8217s are true, cause as long as there are corrupt ppl in this world conspiracy is possible, amp i have seen a lot evidence in this documentary that support their claim, also a lot of witnesses a mp children of the witnesses have said a lot of stuff that support their theory, theory they are investigating also Steve Rambam is good detective, he has hunted war criminals before, if this would be BS he would not be part of it, so i believe this show is not BS i also believe that ppl here Bashing the show amp denying that Hitler escaped are NeoNazis (including the one who created this blog), cause they see Hitlers escape as dis-crease, so they want it not to be true, they are protecting the honor oh their hero krcko u can never trust what communists say, they claimed that they found Hitlers jaw, but we can8217t be sure that8217s its true, even new media in Russia is controlled by communist power amp they can say what ever they want amp u cant trust their reports neither, if u die in Rus they can tell amp write what ever story they want i believe that Hitler escaped, there is a lot of proof of that amp no1 can convince me that its BS. Wow Thanks for the warning, I lived half of my life in communist country, but without your warning I wouldnt know what to expect from communists. But to claim communists lied about lot of stuff therefore they must have lied about Hitler is stupid. Whats their motive Why would they protect Hitler Apparently he killed 20 million of them, 6 more million starved to death and they were so grateful that they covered his escape Great logic. Furthermore, you try to blame it all on commies, but the fact is that if Hitler didnt kill himself, its a global conspiracy. Western allies came to same conclusion as the Russians did, even in Stalin years when he claimed that Hitler escaped. And yes, Stalin had the motive for his lie, to make everyone look elsewhere while he grabs power in eastern Europe. About the jawbone, Im pretty convinced its real. If people in this show arent convinced, why didnt they offer Russians, lets say, budget of 1 episode or 2 million dollars for the opportunity to make DNA test on jawbone Instead they are parading with the DNA results of the skull fragment as the big evidence Hitler escaped, although that was never used in identification AND was found a whole year later then jawbone and the rest of the remains. Even the scientists who did DNA test, archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni and dr. Linda Strausbaugh say that it proves nothing The cranial vault fragment in question was recovered a full year (May 1946) after the initial discoveries of the bodies (May 1945). As we say in archeology, context is everything. The context had been destroyed in waiting over a year to return to Berlin. The mandible that was sent to Moscow in 1945 is, I believe, that of Hitler. The cranial vault is someone else. You can believe whatever you want, but to me its obvious from this and your other comments that all of your proof comes only and exclusively from this show, you are repeating their statements like some parrot. I grew up in a communist country and maybe thats the reason I trust no one. I am especially suspicious when someone, like the investigators in this show, is constantly bragging how they are the best at what they do, practically flawless, completely independent and unbiased. Then I investigate, among other things, 2 pieces of evidence on which they base entire show, skull DNA and FBI files and find out they arent at all honest about either of those and I dont see any way to trust them about anything else. You can trust them if you want, of course. You can trust Santa is real for all I care8230 SGM ERP..US ARMY, Retired says: PHONY BALONEY. This yoyo that is ID8217d as US ARMY SPECIAL FORCES8230 Boils my blood. I8217m a retired SERGEANT MAJOR8230and this irks me. He is a 8220FORMER SPECIAL FORCES SFC PFC8221. what ever his rank was8230 He is NOT a US ARMY SF SOLDIER8230 PERIOD. He lost that when he left ACTIVE DUTY.. At the end of WW28230after the schmucks birthday 8212 April 20 8230..he was in such bad shape 8212 he could barely walk without aid from someone. Parkinson8217s and other problems had him near death8217s door. He SHOT himself..no doubt at all..and was very dead8230 End of that story..PERIOD. THEN 8211 we have this gathering of mindless at the table in Argentina8230.ID8217ing some GERMAN Medals 8211 and calling them WW2. Morons8230They were POST WAR 8212 WEST GERMAN8230.with oak leaves in center. NOT SWASTIKAS. So many people know nothing about this stuff 8211 they are easily snowed by these goons. A good way to make a buck I guess8230..and8230the bunker with all the weapons ans equipment found. My God 8212 how gullible are people8230. That stuff would have been rusted to death8230NOT in like new condition. and 8230with what appeared to be the TOY GUNS being sold to look like the real thing8230 Possibly AIRSOFT8230 Anyway 8212 99 of this Show is baloney8230Some of the characters they question8230. gezzz. and8230The dude who had the medals..(yuk)8230and the supposed picture of Hitler. Very convenient NOT to show it8230hmmm8230 All in all8230fun to watch 8212 at how these goons identify items so blatantly wrong8230..and the SF guy8230..looking at rocks and giving his opinion of what they are 8211 prove he needs to be working at McDonalds 8230. Have a GREAT NEW YEAR ALLgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgtgt I found a major problem with the storytime line from the latest episode. The woman who say she was Borman8217s adopted daughter, stated he left, disappeared after Eichmann was captured. Eichmann was captured in 1960, the documents from the government Chile stated Borman was dead and buried in February 1959. So either she is lying or the show is not following there own timeline. Why didn8217t they ask her if she had any pictures or documents of Bormans He adopted her he had business interests he was a land owner there must be some handwriting samples to do a comparison. It appears the while Borman was hiding out he was very high profile a lot people knew who he was, apparently he did nothing to change his appearance grow a beard color his hair. The show is funny, the actors (they are not investigators) over act are overly dramatic, they see Nazis Hitler and Borman everywhere, I find it amusing stephen bartnicovic szcapanska, a victim of nazis says: really history chaser history chaser feels and thinks hitler couldnt run through what he says a rat hole to escape current history shows another despot hiding in a pit. and injured animals fight for life harder, then the comparison to this last despot is the fact that saddam hussians father was supporting hitler and where they found this pig in a pit, as usama they found that pig in a area of his tacit supporters, Then the facts they present in argentina, chile, paraguay are not ifs, it seems that martin boreman was indeed there, but the USA seemed restrained in going after this paracite in orsono, like the agents of Isreal after adolf eichman, so they did have good intellegence. maybe the USA didnt want to alarm the public. Then the german killers later caught in argentina, and then the private village in villa barvaria where there was a military german underground bunker with the german style military fencing, The reporter feels in his story feels nazis were a joke, but no sir they were not and they and their insane supporters still need to be exposed I nearly laughed out loud during the segment regarding the drain tunnel while envisioning Hitler climbing down the rather lengthy ladder with his Parkinson8217s and severe tremor and other ailments to escape by waiting submarine. Not only that, what about the 22 interviews with eyewitnesses who gave firsthand accounts of Hitler and Brauns final days, which included April 30, 1945, the day he committed suicide These were interviews given by staff who were simply doing their jobs, such as Gertraud Traudl Junge, who was his secretary. Also, would Hitler have married Braun only to leave her behind or have her shot I rather doubt that. Would Braun have been able to never contact her family again Doubtful. Possibly if Hitler had been in outstanding health, he might have tried to escape using tunnels and a submarine, but he was in terrible physical shape (probably wouldn8217t have lived much longer anyway), and it seems far more likely that he would commit suicide and request his and Braun8217s bodies burned, especially as he8217d learned what happened to Mussolini and his mistress. That makes sense, but this 8220investigation8221 with it8217s 8220could have,8221 8220possibly,8221 8220might have,8221 is a bit desperate and even ridiculous at times. Sure, there were thousands of Nazis in Argentina and the investigation in possible 8220rat lines8221 is interesting on its own, but that doesn8217t mean Hitler was there or that he was the 8220high value8221 person. Loads of assumptions being made, too, as in later episodes the investigators, with only suspicion and speculation, begin to refer to places in Argentina as 8220Hitler8217s home,8221 etc. Nice leap from A to B to Z amp i laugh at u, u did not pay attention, none of the so called eye witnesses were able to say for sure that the body was Hitlers cause it was covered amp no1 so the face amp scull Russia had was proven to be woman8217s, u just see what u want to see or u just laughed to often amp weren8217t paying attention its life first ppl discover that history was like this amp then new gen discovers the old ones were wrong amp history gets overwritten, u must just accept the reality amp mostly i agree with Sasuke Alfred Lippe says: Wow, this author certainly fancies himself doesn8217t he It only takes a few episodes to see there is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting the idea Hitler May have lived on, why the author automatically treats it like big foot despite this clear dif ference is beyond me. Nearly every prediction made is confirmed through the series. Which is why it is interesting to watch. Thefe would have to be a tunnel here Well there that is extremely unlikely. The team then scans the ground and finds a tunnel exactly where it should be. Hitler would have to have taken a U-boat Multiple OSS reports show U-boats in Argentina. Secret hideout in Argentina that seems extremely lavish for the middle of the jungle Yeah, it8217s full of nazo coins and stomach medicine (Hitler had stomach problems). I mean I usually hate shows like this because it8217s hours of nothing, but that isn8217t at all the case with this show. Too bad the author sullied it8217s name with his jumping to conclusions. I don8217t know what to believe. I know history taught us that Hitler committed suicdie in the bunker, his body rolled into a rug, taken outside and then cremated. But as episodes in season 1 showed, the skull that DNA was performed on was that of a woman. For me, I8217m LOVING this show. I like being led through the 8220possibilities8221. Is it possible that Hitler died in Germany as many of us were taught8230or did history get it wrong I8217m not saying one is right and one is wrong. I8217m seeing it objectively. And no I don8217t consider Survivor or BB any more real than what tv writers write for them. With this show we may learn the 8220truth8221 once and for all It8217s just more enjoyable than a lot of other junk on tv. Overwhelming amount of evidence. You are kidding for sure. Every prediction confirmed Well if they are predicting and they are confirming it isn8217t so hard to do. WHY would there have to be the tunnel. They claim because Russians was everywhere on April 21, but it8217s a blatant lie. If Hitler8217s bunker is on the north, Tempelhoff is south, canal that Russians had to cross to attack airport even more south, how could Russians be between airport and bunker while planes are still flying. Even if there were Russians there, as they wrongfully claim, then why wouldn8217t they be in tunnels also. Just stupid. And they SAY they found some secret tunnel, but I didnt see one, did you Even that, completely irrelevant evidence is doubtful. Why would Hitler HAVE to use U-boat Why couldnt he escape like most of other Nazis in some ship Neutral Spanish ship maybe As for U-boats in Argentina, lets say you were German submariner and you heard war is lost somewhere mid Atlantic Would you decide to go to Germany and then try to escape in Argentina, or would you go there directly Lots of Nazis stole lot of money and ended in south America, and lot of them did awful things that could cause stomach ulcer Or Hitler was the only one with stomach problems Even if he was, someone else without his knowledge could prepare the hideout just in case Please dont accept all the crap glorious investigators try to sell you as evidence, tunnels, gadgets, u-boats, secret basements, wells, 4th Reich, missiles on America and whatnot Ask yourself why they dismissed all the bunker witnesses as irrelevant8230 Ask yourself why they arent even trying to back up their constant claim that Hitler desperately wanted to escape Ask yourself if he really want ed, then why didnt he escaped earlier when all of his cronies did Its one thing to fake his death, but why risk real death to do it I mean, he could fake his death anywhere. Even easier than in chaotic bunker. I personally would believe in their tunnel or some similar pos evidence only if they find graffiti AH was here and pile of fossilized shit underneath with Hitlers DNA8230 Why are you so desperate to try to disprove this. If you personally dont believe the overwhelming evidence or respect that these men ( who have absolutely more accomplishments accolades, experience, and intelligence than you or this idiot critic) are trying to correct history when there is a giant doubt as to its reliability which has been proven multiple times, You can go be complacent with your legos somewhere else little boy. I find this extremely intriguing and factually based, as does everyone else but you. I will believe retired intelligence operatives that still retain military clearance over an angry random internet keyboard warrior. Even the Soviets admitted the body they found in the bunker was not Hitler. Everyone just chose to accept it because no one could accept reality and that Hitler actually escaped Germany. And if you and this biased 8220critic8221 want to disprove that, I await your investigation, but alas you two are just loser tv show critic keyboard warriors, go slug your 2 soda and smash your stupid head with some orville redenbacher kernels and leave the investigating to the big boys. If nothing else, it is fascinating to see the mysterious complex recently discovered in the jungle in Argentina wholly consistent with a high-ranking Nazi hideout. To finally analyze the hundreds of reports which have been secret for decades is a worthwhile endeavor as well. I doubt the FBI had a habit of telling their informants to send in whatever crazy rumor they heard from the street. And it is undeniable there were hundreds of reports of Hitler being alive after the end of April 1945. As for witnesses saying the official story of suicide is true, presumably loyal Nazis would not be disloyal and blow the cover story. I don8217t think it8217s fair to criticize the actual investigation for using qualifiers in their statements like 8220could8221 or 8220might8221 both because there are witnesses to the official story and that8217s what a real investigation entails 8212 letting the evidence dictate the conclusions. Sometimes could is all one can safely say. Do I think Hitler survived into May I have no idea. But it is certainly worth exploring. Jungle hideout in Argentina8230 Even if someone prepared it with Hitler in mind, it doesnt mean he had anything to do with it. On numerous times cronies around him thought they knew what he wants and were proven wrong when he found out and had a fit of carpet-biting rage. Like when they lavishly decorated his first field headquarters. He saw it, he jelled, he left and never used it8230 Secret FBI records8230 For millionth time8230 Lies, lies, lies8230 Anyone can see those frigging reports online, just letters of sightings by average people, or con artist, newspapers clippings8230 Rubbish. FBI just confirmed they received it and filed it in drawer for decades, One of few relevant documents among them is letter from FBI to army intelligence where FBI reply on army request to help them with escaped Nazis in south America. FBI resolutely refused to do anything about it on account of not having any jurisdiction in S. America. BTW, 8220secret reports8221 contain at least as many sightings of Hitler in USA as there are in South America, but I guess that was too farfetched for our glorious investigators. Hundreds of people reported Hitler alive after 19458230 If you google Michael Jackson alive you will find ton of sightings, even specialized pages dedicated just for that. I smell conspiracy in 50 years. Loyal Nazis covering story8230 That doesnt work like that. If you have 3 people maybe, but not when there are hundreds of people in and around the bunker every day, people who know Hitler and have contact with him on daily base. And most of them aren8217t even Nazis. Mind you, what about missing 9 days when according to our glorious investigators Hitler already escaped, but still didn8217t shoot himself Interesting how they didn8217t even mention those 9 days8230 Maybe because in those secret FBI documents there is second one unfavorable for their fairy tale8230 The one where experts conclude that Hitler8217s signature on his wedding papers is authentic. ups8230 How if he escaped when they say he did Glorious investigators can use all 8220could8221 and 8220might8221 they want once they at least prove that Hitler wanted to escape, after that everything is possible. They only tried to prove that he could escape and that is so stupid. Of course he could He could leave weeks before when all other important Nazi rats left the ship. Every one of them practically begged him to leave with them8230 He could even leave when this show claims he did with no need for any tunnel. Contrary to lies investigators are propagating in show, route from bunker to airport was clear of enemies and escape possible until April 25. There even was other airport 8220Gatow8221 available for him few days longer. According to his personal pilot after that light aircraft was ready to lift of improvised strip in park8230 Last light aircraft flew in an out on 28. Every bit of indication we have, all the witnesses stories trough the war, all the gibberish he himself wrote in his books, everything tells us Hitler was one of those who would rather go down with his ship than even potentially answer for his actions, but now here are Bob, Tim and the gang and they say 8220he could escape, therefore he did escape, trust us we just know, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and look at all this cool gadgets, half price with code FourthReichinJungle, wink, wink, nudge, nudge82308221 Hi Rhonda, no Im not a history professor or a book writer of any sort, but thank you for the compliment. ) Just a regular guy with interest in this part of history and triggered by this poor, poor try to fake history just in order to get few guys rich. If you play connect the dots Hitler escaped you can not skip bunch of dots, treat few full stops from the sentences above as dots, add whole bunch of imaginary dots, then finish connect the dots - Nazis in S. America and pretend both are connected. Since the show isnt about Nazis in S. America it isnt interesting, it is malicious and it serves only one function. To make them rich by riding the whole conspiracy theory-dont trust the government wave BTW, funny you should mention book about Hitler. I guess you know that Gerrard Williams, chubby guy usually wearing a silk scarf in the show, wrote a book about Hitlers escape to Argentina in 2012. Im sure they mentioned it at least as much in the show as they mentioned the fact that UFC fighter Tim Kennedy, singlehandedly tracked down O. B. Laden They are really independent investigators, in it just to for once and all, settle this damn thing. Interestingly most important part, on Hitlers actual escape from bunker is very different in his book, but I guess producers thought this was better, much more simple to ignore everything and focus on some tunnel8230 A guess 8211 you8217re a history professor who wrote a book about Hitler and an alternate possibility threatens your academic power 8211 right. No one else would get so warped over someone trying to connect a few alternative dots. No question 8211 Nazis were in South America. Question is, who And, why It8217s still interesting. Thomas Brady says: Of course they must say there was no witnesses8230 If they say there was, then they suddenly have one dead Hitler and no more episodes for their fairytales, tunnels and gadgets8230 If you want to see real interviews with genuine witnesses I recommend Smithsonian channel documentary 8220The Day Hitler Died8221. 8220The Day Hitler Died, reveals how the increasingly volatile Fhrer spent the last week of his life planning his own death. The original interviews were recorded in 1948 by Michael Musmanno, a US judge who presided at the Nuremberg war crime trials. Frustrated by persistent rumors that Hitler had escaped from the bunker he set out to track down witnesses to the Fhrers last days. He traced more than 100 witnesses who spoke freely about everything from Hitlers hasty marriage to the disposal of his body.8221 This judge did all those interviews in his free time as a personal project, and those are only witnesses in western allies zone, Russians had even more of them. Hi Susan, on this page limit is 2 replays on original post, so I will answer in this post. Short answer is of course 100 people didn8217t witness his death. Witnesses are not only people who witness the act and aftermath. All people who had contact with Hitler, especially in the last few months could shed light on his thoughts and intentions. There were hundreds of those. Since treatment of witnesses in this show is very indicative of truthfulness of people involved in its production here is the long answer One of the rare truths said by investigators in this show is that there was no witnesses of the act. But then immediately lie that no one saw Hitlers face afterward Well, obviously someone had to roll dead bodies in those carpets. We have at least 5 people who saw dead bodies before carpets were applied: Martin Bormann head of Nazi Party office, Heinz Linge 8211 Hitler8217s valet, Otto Gnsche 8211 his personal adjutant, Artur Axmann head of the Hitler youth, Rochus Misch 8211 bodyguardtelephonistcurrier. First one died in the escape attempt, but 4 of them lived long after the war. OK, all big-time Nazis and SS members, but not even mentioned by our investigators. What about all the people who Hitler shook hands with and said last farewell to immediately before suicide Basically all the people in the Furrier bunker at the time plus some summoned from adjacent Reich Chancellery bunker They saw his face, but I guess they are worthless to our investigators because they dont even mention them. Then if you dont have physical evidence and witnesses of the actual event, I guess real investigators would try to get as much as possible testimonies of people who knew Hitler and had contact with him in last months of the war. How else can an honest investigator with not enough physical evidence determine someone8217s intentions and state of mind. Psychological profile of sorts8230 Or maybe just say repeatedly 8220he wanted to run8221 based on nothing like these idiots Interestingly we have Dr. Walter C. Langer, an American psychoanalyst who produced a secret psychological study of Hitler for the OSS in 1943. Langer talked to a score of people who had known Hitler and were available to United States intelligence agencies. From interviews, he concluded that Hitler8217s behavior was evidence of a mixed and divided psyche a weakling masquerading as a bully, and a failure in the role of Fuhrer. He was 8221probably a neurotic psychopath bordering on schizophrenia.8221 Two years before the end of the war. Dr. Langer wrote that 8221as Germany suffers successive defeats, Hitler will become more and more neurotic8221 and in all likelihood would take his own life. Not our investigators, no, they ignore countless witnesses that could hurt their agenda and end the show at season 1 8211 episode 2. Instead they focus on some tunnels that are utterly Irrelevant, Hitler could easily escape on April 21st without the need for any tunnel. But could and did isnt the same thing. On the other hand, one of the crucial witnesses for their story is an old woman, who worked as maid somewhere and is convinced she left food for Hitler in front of some door because some other servant told her so Excuse me. Hear-say your honor They call themselves investigators. What do they think that Ashton Kutcher invented pranks. Not to mention 9 missing days our 8220investigators8221 simply ignore What the hell happened between April 21st when Hitler escaped according to them and April 30th when he killed himself. How come all those people there claim he was still there We are not talking about few hardened Nazis any more, we are talking about all sorts of people who all knew Hitler and met with him on daily basis. If Hitler had twin brother maybe he could fool them all for 9 days, but no body double could ever do that. Apparently they were all ready and willing to learn the 8220cover story8221 and just wait for the Russians to rape them, kill them, imprison them while knowing their leader run away with his tail between his legs8230 Would you cover for such a boss Would anyone. We are talking about real people, not some robots after all How could over 100 people witness his deathDelta Trading Group Delta Trading Group is a set of ridiculously expensive trading indicators that cost 7,800 and 600 each month for accompanying trading room. There is absolutely no track record of success from the trading moderator. No live trades called in room. No published track record, moderator refuses to verify live trading results. The moderator prefers to be called a Doctor, but a Doctor or what Appears to be a mail order PhD. A complete smoke show of trading nonsense that targets low information AM radio listeners. The trading room is a daily, two hour infomercial focused on selling, not trading. User Rating 3.43 ( 7 votes) Comments Rating 0 ( 0 reviews) Pros: Pretty good customer support. Thats about it. Cons: Trading room moderator is a fake PhD proclaiming that his trading indicators are the answer to all your money problems. No track record. Moderator refuses to verify personal trading results. A complete and total waste of time. Today8217s review is Delta Trading Group What is Delta Trading Group Delta Trading Group is an indicator package and trading room owned and moderated by Dr. Vance Cast. The cost of the indicators is a one time fee of 7,800, and the trading room has a monthly fee of 600. The indicators are programmed to work only on the Ensign charting platform. Typically, when I am attempting to determine the effectiveness of a trading indicator, I like to see that the developer has developed an accompanying trading system that specifically uses the indicator. Every developer should be able to curve fit his indicator to work perfectly on past price data. Unfortunately, this developer never took this step, so there is no way to measure the effectiveness of his indicators. I consider this to be a major red flag. Most modern trading platforms have the ability to drop an indicator onto a chart and quickly back test. Apparently, Dr. Vance Cast feels that submitting his indicators to statistical analysis is not that important. The next thing I look for is track record of trades from the indicator developer. It only makes sense that if the indicator developer has a positive trading track record using his own indicators, then I should at least have a chance of replication. However, Dr. Vance Cast provides no track record of any of his personal trades. Finally, I look for a track record of the trades called in the live trading room. Simply put, where the moderator calls out a trade in demonstration of his software and then each trade is recorded. Over a period of time, usually a few weeks, we can determine whether the moderator8217s trades are consistently profitable, and whether these trades are can be replicated. Once again, Dr Vance can provide no record of any trades called in his live trading room. There is simply no proof. Calling Dr. Vance Cast Next step was to call Dr. Vance himself, and speak with him about his indicators and how someone could verify the promises of 8220turning me into a full time professional trader8221. Unfortunately, the doctor was very busy and so I got to speak with both of his assistants, on two separate occasions. The first assistant explained that the doctor does not show any sort of trading verification, but if I attended the trading room, then I would be able to plainly see the brilliance of the doctor on full display. The next guy I spoke with, I was a bit more aggressive regarding verifying Dr. Vance8217s claims of being a full time professional trader for the past 20 years. Again, the next representative said that I should just watch Dr. Vance trade live and that I should talk to the other people in the trading room, and that they will all verify that Dr. Vance is indeed a master trader. I told him that all of this could be quickly alleviated, and that I was ready to send my 7,800 the very moment that Dr. Vance could show me that he is trading. I wasn8217t asking for much, just a single month account statement showing that he trades, and that he made a net profit of at least one dollar. This simple request, the lowest of low bars was flatly denied. I found it amazing that he couldn8217t even verify a single month, and yet he wanted me to send him 7,800 and pay 600 per month without even the smallest amount of verification. A Closer Look At Dr. Vance Dr. Ridiculous Ego One of things I found odd and highly annoying is how Vance and his assistants liberally use the title of 8220Doctor8221. Both assistants always refer to him by 8220The Doctor8221 in nearly every sentence. They would toss out 8220The Doctor8221, as if I were supposed to be impressed by such a lofty title. And so, I decided to do a little research into our 8220Doctor8221. Just what sort of Doctor is he From an accredited University This really opened up a lot of questions and so I once again asked his assistants and requested more information. One of the assistants said that he was a doctor of psychology, and so I asked him which university He said that nobody had ever asked him this question and he would get back to me. The other assistant wasn8217t really sure what a doctor was, or what a person had to do, or what process they needed to be titled a doctor. On the Delta Trading Group website, Dr. Vance claims that he earned a PhD in organizational management. But there is no reference to which accredited university that Dr. Vance studied. He also claims that he is world renowned expert in Risk Homeostasis Theory and that his dissertation can be read at the University of Minnesota library. Next, I went to the University of Minnesota library and ran a search for any published articles by Dr. Vance Cast. No articles whatsoever. This left me confused and so I next called the library and asked if they could find any reference to this supposed dissertation. The librarian called me the next day and could find no reference to this person. Interesting. There is also a link to read his dissertation at Hong Kong University, but the link, followed to its completion leads to only a blank page. Next, my final search for this dissertation was by searching Google Scholar. Once again, no links to this ground breaking Phd material. This whole question of having a Phd, and having his staff always refer to Vance as 8220The Doctor8221 of something fancy sounding got my imagination really working overtime. Wouldn8217t it be cool if I got a PhD and started referring to myself as a doctor Can you imagine the respect I would get if I added that to the end of my name and had all my of employees now refer to me as a doctor What is the first thing when someone thinks when they hear 8220Doctor8221 You think of someone really smart, educated, and well respected. But really, how difficult is it to be called a Doctor Is there any special thing one must attain, from some accredited body Considering that our Doctor Vance Cast is offering a trading product, and since trading product vendors seems to attract the shadiest hustlers, I decided that I should find out exactly what it takes to get an official degree and now begin calling myself Doctor. And so I google searched, 8220Get a PhD Fast 8220. I was surprised at what I found. Apparently, there is a cottage industry of 8220Universities8221 that will issue a PhD based on life experience work. In a nutshell, a person writes an article about a topic of interest and then submits to one of these universities and they guarantee, for a fee, that you will have your PhD in only a few days. This appears to be the likely path of our newly appointed Dr. Vance Cast. Still dont believe how easy it is to get a PhD Check out the story of Zoe the cat8230a real house cat with mutiple Phd8217s . Why is this relevant If I were to offer a trading room or a trading product, and if I also have an accompanying PhD in something titled, 8220Risk Homeostasis Theory and Auction Market Theory of Financial Markets8221 it certainly makes my product appear to be much more credible. The unwashed person could very easily be fooled into believing that I am an expert, and that verifying something like an actual trading record would be unnecessary due diligence. In fact, in speaking with several of Dr. Vance8217s students, I asked them if they verified that he actually trades. The response was uniform in that each felt that since he was a doctor, that he must be credible and they didn8217t need to verify because of the implied trustworthiness of his lofty title. The Reverend Vance Cast Apparently, being a doctor was not good enough for Vance Cast. He also needed to be a reverend. For only a small fee, a person can also be a fully ordained Reverend, which includes an official diploma and a badge. You can find our good Dr. Vance Cast8217s listing at the First Church of Atheism. In my opinion, the good doctor should also include on the Delta Trading Group website that he is also a reverend. When I found this listing, it literally made me laugh hysterically. Some Other Exploits Worthy Of Mention Vance Cast is quite the showman. In addition to the current gig as trading guru, he also has done some other corny things. On his twitter page. he describes himself as a Best Selling Author (whatever that means), research analyst, and commercial pilot. There is no mention of being a full time professional trader of 20 years. His last twit was November 2012, so I assume that this trading guru thing is a relatively new endeavor. If you run a search on Archive. Org, you will see that the DeltaTradingGroup website is about a year old. In addition to the Delta Trading Group website, our good doctorReverend has promoted a few other projects: Naurodomains. where our good doctor will build you a website for only 24.95 each month. FuturesTradingMarketing. where the good doctor can show you how to promote trading products and make big bucks. CliffordVanceCast. a website that teaches the secrets of Forex trading. MillionDollarBachelors, and MillionDollarBachelorettes, dating websites. You better ask the doctor personally about this craziness. Once thing we can say for sure about Vance Cast, he is a great promoter with a long history of selling stuff. The Crown Jewel Of Promotion So how does Vance keep feeding his marketing machine How is he able to generate new leads AM radio. The following link is to a site titled The American Dream Radio Show. Vance has a pre-recorded, one hour show that is tailor made to appeal to the lowest of the low information consumer8230AM radio listeners. You can listen to the show, in its entirety here. The marketing is quite good. He does a great job of convincing folks that he is the real deal, and that becoming a full time professional day trader is super easy8230if you only follow the advice of the good doctor. The whole point of the show is to drive people into a free trial of his trading room. The Delta Trading Room First things first, this is not the average trading room that I typically encounter when writing a review. The Delta trading room typically lasts two hours each day. In total, I recorded 14 hours of video footage. Not once did I witness actual trading. What I did witness was a daily infomercial and promotion on how great Vance is, and how everyone is together and making money and reaching their dreams of a worry free, financially independent lifestyle. You know the pitch. Essentially, each day was a repeat of the conversation from the prior day. No trading. But lots of talking. Vance can really talk. In fact, he spends the entire two hours each day talking and talking and talking. Telling us how great his software is, and how much money is made, and how easy it is, etc. How trading is about psychology and money management, etc. The usual platitudes that we commonly hear. But no trading. And certainly no track record. Some of you reading this are probably wondering why I even bothered recording 14 hours of video, when it was quickly obvious that no actual trading was occurring. Well, the assistants kept assuring me that if I waited long enough, at some point I would definitely be watching some live trading. After 7 days of recording, I simply could not witness a single trade. Frustrating. Of course, some of you might still be thirsty to consume some of the good Doctor8217s magical trading elixir, and so I snipped out a portion of his endless rambling and produced the following video. He gets a little animated in this short clip. Wrapping Things Up So what exactly is the Delta Trading Group In a nutshell, Vance Cast is very clever promoter. He attached the PhD to his name to sound really official and smart. Next he got an off the shelf trading platform and whipped up some custom trading indicators. Then, he had a one hour radio infomercial produced that runs nearly non stop to the most naive and low information purchaser8230.the AM radio listener. The entire goal is to drive traffic from the radio program into the daily trading room, which is just an infomercial. There is no track record of any sort. The entire goal of Vance is to play the numbers and find those few naive suckers with little experience at trading, and are clueless about how most of these trading promoters work. He is not looking for the typical person that spends 200 a month for a trading room signal provider. He is looking for the poor rube that is driving his car, listening to AM radio, interested in listening to shallow stories of conspiracy theories and UFO sightings. This person is probably driving in his car, either to or from work, is probably blue collar with little hope of escaping the misery of the current rat race existence. They hear the radio show and imagine the cool elixir of a well worded hope cocktail, about how anyone can easily become a day trader and achieve the financial success that they have always hoped for. How they need to call now and get access to the live trading room, where Dr Vance will show them how to simply sit in front of a computer and trading dollars start magically appearing with the greatest of ease. Of course, many of my readers know that this is all a fantasy. A Personal Note To Vance Cast Show me the money. Show me an account statement. I would love to be proven wrong and have to come back and grovel and apologize. And just imagine how many of my readers that will flock to your site to purchase your product, once you prove me wrong. Surely you will soon read this review and you are going to be pissed off to no end. You will want to sue me for defamation (like everyone else) and whatever else you can think of. So come here, onto TradingSchools. Org and talk to me. I am waiting. Ready to engage a brilliant doctor. Ready to debate the reality of your proposition. But we know that you wont engage me. Because this means that you will be forced into showing trading performance, something you have intention of doing. Why Because the truth is that you do not trade profitably. Delta Trading is a fantasy. These fantastic profits that you profess are just a smoke show, they are not real. Just like your mail order PhD. Well that8217s if for today. Another crummy trading product from yet another charlatan. Another guru with no proof, hiding behind a curtain of lies and deceit. Dont forget to leave your comments below. Seems like its been forever since I have written a positive review. Thanks for reading. About The Author Thanks for your research. I would have been one of those victims. I8217m a single parent looking to supplement if not replace my current income and Dr. Vance talks a good show. Thanx for stopping what could have been a disaster not to mentions hundreds of dollars wasted. Any suggestion on a legit day trading opportunity With a Finance Degree, I do like the idea of day trading full time. Vote Up 4 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago Thank you. But it gets a little frustrating having to write about, and research so much deception. Recently, I am noticing an uptick in trading educators that are attaching the title of PhD to the end of their name. I can8217t wait for my PhD to arrive in the mail. Apparently it comes with a gold embossed, very official looking certification from the American Council Of Financial Risk Managers. Apparently they really liked my dissertation on auction market game theory of financial markets (that I copied from another website). Getting awarded my Phd is a great achievement and such a hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Emmett, You should be more careful in your generalized characterizations, 8221 a one hour show made to appeal to the LOWEST OF THE LOW information consumer8230.AM RADIO Listeners.8221 I have a B. A. in English and an M. A. in journalism and communications. I listen to AM radio frequently on road trips. I stumbled into the Delta radio program and decided it was worth follow-up research on the internet. I appreciate your review but am insulted by your comments regarding my choice of information platforms, along with everyone else you directly offended. In the future, perhaps you can confine your reviews to hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 4 Vote Down Reply 1 year 3 months ago I agree. While not totally offended it did hurt a bit that AM radio listeners were held in such low esteem. I believe you8217ll find the opposite true, in that AM listeners are quite educated and sophisticated people and more FM listeners, I assume he meant FM was more noble, are less educated and sophisticated. I too, liked the article, otherwise. Thanks Vote Up 5 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Tamio, Your characterization of climate chance demonstrates that you are in fact the very stereotype of the AM radio listener. Bravo. Emmett, Thanks for yet another useful review. Whenever my co-workers ask about some trading scheme they8217ve seen advertised, I send them to your site. Keep it up Vote Up -1 Vote Down Reply 11 months 11 days ago AM radio news is mostly right wing bashing the left during the day and evenings. FM news has PBS radio. At night FM radio has the conspiracy, paranormal and UFO topics particularly on 8220CoastToCoast8221. In the last 10 years, AM radio more than a few times had 8220trading ads8221. Sometimes they are played during the commuting hours just before and after work. I recall one example 8220he smiles because he just made more money on his trade than he will make on his job today..8221. Also Preston James the option scammer used to do commercials on AM. It8217s usually these hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 11 months 11 days ago Neglected to mention that the pseudo-intellectual PBS only exists through the fleecing of actual low-info tax payers and the usual suspects of ideologically motivated tax-shelter foundations. These scam infomercials exist wherever they can find access, like the parasites they are. The obvious political bias of the reviewer ignores the certain truth that, if PBS and NPR had to survive based on advertising, these same scamming parasites would thrive just as easily squeezed between agitprop 8220fake news8221 snippets and totebag fundraisers. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 2 months 9 days ago Here8217s a new one. 8220Trading Made Easy8221 with Mr. Frank Lewis. He is on KXNT AM Lasvegas Radio Sunday Nights. Same thing charging thousands for a software claims to be a trading guru. 8220HASNT HAD A LOSING DAY IN 20168221 Would love to see if he is legit. sOUNDS IMPRESSIVE8230 Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 9 months 24 days ago Trying to check this out. Can8217t find anything online. Anything Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 3 months 8 days ago Me too, have a friend who had a stroke who wants to give his last penny to this guy. If it was legit I could find something, anything on this company 8211 trying to save this guy8217s savings. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 month 15 days ago your reviews are spot on and honest evaluation of the FURUS that claim to be GURUS 8211 another excellent observation and savior for the unaware 8211 you are the man keep it up Emmett Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago I have been a member for almost 8 months. Above and beyond what you have written, check out Joseph Fusco. He lead a scam that offered to get grants for small businesses until he got shut down. He also goes by Bobby Fusco. His scam never got anybody the grants they were promised, but Delta8217s business model is almost an exact duplicate. At Delta, they don8217t use his last name, but just call him Joseph. It would not surprise me at all if Cast is just operating as a front man for Fusco. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Yep, I know all about Fusco. A real turd. A long history of petty scams. Only reason I didnt drag him into the review is because he has had a marginal participation at Avenge Software. He used to be a freelance promoter for that company, I didn8217t want to sully Avenge. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago 8230and don8217t forget about Vance8217s alter-ego: his lead goon 8220Tony Foxmann8221. This is the name of the guy that typically rides into to the rescue from somewhere out in cyberspace anytime The Doctor is being attacked. 8220Tony8217s8221 email threats and tantrums are classic and often thousands of words long. 8230and the best part of all is that 8220Tony Foxmann8221 is actually Vance himself Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago I8217ve been a member of Delta Trading Group for 10 months. I8217ve participated in the daily webinars and have seen Dr. Vance trade at least once a day for 6 months. I don8217t participate in the webinar anymore because I don8217t need to. The program works. I now make 250-1000 a week, and, this is the first time I8217ve ever day traded. Like other comments, his system needs to be followed to a T If followed, it works. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago Ok, thanks for the comment Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago So, if you don8217t mind sharing, what is the size of your brokerage account that you trade with to bring in 250-1000 a week and how many contracts are you trading at a time Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago May I ask on what amount of principle are you making that amount of money What is your Percent of Return Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago After reading your update on this guy, I did about 30 minutes of Googling myself. If you8217re doing your DD on joining, or a member of his group, you really need to Google him or do a paid background check. His bio leaves out the details of the many years of incarceration. If you don8217t trust Emmett8217s review and update, check it out for yourself. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago My experiences in the Delta Trading Group were exactly the same as yours. I was in there 7 different times and he repeated the same presentation each day. He did 3 trades during that whole time, one loss 1 tick, one made one tick and the 3rd one did make 8 ticks. But it was very obvious that he did not trade the system himself since he professed that the 1st two hours were the best trading hours. Yet, all he did was talk during those two hours. From what I could tell, most people in the room were on hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago If he is misrepresenting himself, wouldn8217t that create a civil liability since it has resulted in pecuniary loss to, I would think, at least some of his members I imagine his 8220qualifications8221 have led a lot of people to join his group. Same experience as Tony. Only sat in 2 sessions a few months back. When he did trade live money, he didn8217t follow his system, he adjusted stops. He did do a lot of talking about his 8220qualifications8221. Disclaimer: The following statements are assuming nobody else has the same name and DOB as him. After researching him thoroughly (thanks hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago What More scam involvement for the Delta Trading Group crew (under 8220Wrapping Things Up8221 in the above review) Yet another log on the fire for these 2 turds. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Looks like this site is having a negative effect on Dr Vance8217s Scam sales. Received this in my mailbox today: Change your life for Father8217s Day, and get the gift that keeps on giving 8212 a membership with the most professional trading group in the world: Delta Trading Group. 100 Transparency and 100 Track record of trades. We are giving you over 60 discount, with special stipulations that will help us document our group8217s success. Because of your participation in this special program, you will have a couple benefits beyond your huge discount: 1) a higher than usual level of hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 8 months 15 days ago It looks like they821 7ve removed the 8220Dr.8217s8221 bio from their website as well. Now that his REAL background is known, probably not a good idea to tie such a bullshit bio to his company. They8217re also promoting some WSOP crap now too. Anyone thinking of joining DTG would be better served using that money to actually enter themselves in the WSOP. Two thumbs down for Delta Trading Group. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 8 months 15 days ago You totally overlooked his MBA. I think the diploma mill was having a 2-for-1 sale when he bought the PhD, so he got them both. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Wow, those scam rooms now collect not 100 monthly, not 200,but 600. Incredible. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Dear Emmitt, I just wanted to comment on your review. Yes I8217m a little biased, because I8217m a Delta member, but I8217m always interested in an honest review. I search for them often when doing business online. The problem I have, is that this appears to be more of a personal attack piece than a review. When you take this approach, I have to question your motives. Why not address Doc8217s methodology and which part of it you disagree with Or how you believe his never ending attempt to teach us money management is leading us astray This seems to hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Really Todd M You don8217t care that the relationship you have with someone you are paying money to is all built on lies If it8217s all about his methodology then why does he lie about his qualifications The good doctor should focus on convincing people that his method is sound rather than using phony qualifications to do that. And, as with all these gurus, having them produce verified trading statements also shouldn8217t be an unreasonable expectation. Vote Up 2 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Much appreciate your comment. I love when these comment threads start popping because it encourages people to come out and voice their opinion. Sure, my reviews are quite nasty and I attack every point of weakness that I can find. And I don8217t always get it right. My Traders DenNight Scalper review was a really rough review. The owner seriously wanted to ring my neck. But in the end, he eventually sent me a copy of his account statements, which I posted. With a follow up review, and I ate the humble pie. By forcing Night Scalper to disclose personal hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Thanks for the review, Unfortunately, they sound even worse than I imagined. It is still fun to listen to their radio ads though8230. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Love this review and thw support of his employees. I heard this on the radio yesterday while I was humorist myself with a. m. radio. Bottom line IMO: - if it sounds too good to be true, it8217s too good to be true. - The only people who will get rich on these scams, are the scammers. Don8217t be a scammee with these folks aggressive marketing. - these people prey on those that want easy . They use all the key words and pretend to be transparent in their 8220talk show.8221 This may fool people who think this is not a paid advertisement. Do hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago Yikes 8211 Sorry for typos Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago This guy8217s radio infomercial showed up on a local, normally (sort of..) reputable AM station in Salt Lake City today. It pegged my BS meter. At the end of the hour, 8220The Doctor8221 said that he was 8220a BYU alumni8221 (not alumnus, which would8217ve been proper). More BS Affinity fraud is huge in these parts8230 Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago I have been a Delta Member for 10 months now. The Delta trading system is a fabulous tools for new traders to be able to learn to trade without waiting and learning for many years. Many members have done playback for several years of testing his system and it WORKS. Vance Cast is and excellent teacher and mentor, an assets to the trading community. (that has for many years had a bad wrap ) Shame on you for attacking Mr. Cast through a google searches As far as the cost to join. Minimal compared to starting your hellip Read more raquo Vote Up -2 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago The guy is an Ex - Con with a phony PHD Hellllo. knocking on your cranium Is anyone home Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago Thanks for the comment. Glad its working out for you. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 5 months ago How do I get in contact with you Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago Thanks for the review here. I listened to this dog and pony show on the radio today, btw, FM radio and the first thing I did was this review. Marty MD (Mayberry Deputy) Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago look forward to your performance record-talk is cheap Vote Up -1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago I know, right The nerve of people doing their due diligence. I haven8217t seen any attacks on the guy. Just the facts ma8217am. gtgtgt tradingschools. orgreviewsdelta-trading-group-dr-clifford-vance-cast-update Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago It appears the former grant writer fraud man, Bobby Fusco (Joseph F) and the Ex Con, and so called 8220Doctor8221, Vance Cast, were very clever in how they set Delta Trading Group up so it appears that they don8217t fall under any of the state and federal security regulations. but I think I will file a complaint to the Arizona Securities Division anyway Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago 3 months after filing complaints with BBB and Arizona Attorney General and disputing charges on my credit card. Someone called me DTG called me and said they would give me a refund. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Wow, a modern day miracle. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Hi Chip, So I would also like to get my money back. I gave money at the beginning of this charade and have not traded for a year with Delta. Can I reach you to discuss how you went about this. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Hey Duped, I got duped also and maybe if we all get together and make a stink we can try getting our money back. What really pisses me off is all the lies regarding PhD etc82308230(Feeling stupid) Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago I sent a an email to the Arizona BBB basically stating the scam. I disputed the charge on my credit card also. They finally let the dispute time elapse. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 6 months 15 days ago Heard Deltas spiel on the AM car radio Saturday morning. Being a learner using VectorVest, a great Stat platform, but spotty in its record of nailing past calls, and atrcious in this years short term up and down sideways movement market, I was curious a out a guaranted can8217t lose system. Found your review online. THANK YOU. It8217s so tempting to find an easy way to financial freedom. 7600 and hundreds a month. Interesting that the few Delta orks comments are as vague as the infomercials. How about these guys stating how much they paid in Income Tzxes since joining instead hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 3 months ago Emmett 8211 I thought your request was for a full name and you abbreviated the last name. Could you edit my Name in yesterdays comment to Bob K. if possible And thanks for your site. Great analysis. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 3 months ago The beauty of Doc8217s system is its simplicity Its not about the trade signal and lots of complicated indicators. Its about risk management and making money Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Looking forward to seeing your brokerage statements to back up your claims Tim. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Emmet, Stray Dog, Joe, you know what I never thought I would say this but you guys are right. After being a member for a year I have realized this group way over exaggerates the profitability of their trade signal. There are many weeks and even some months where following the system will loose you money. I still don8217t really care about Doc8217s shady past but what I do have a problem with, that has taken me a long time to realize is that the trade signal is not consistent enough. And it also seems more expensive than many other hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago First, Congratulations on waking up and seeing what a scam this trading room is. But, 8220Now I will join another group so I can really start making money consistently8221 Really 99 of these trading room teach BS that cannot be traded profitably by anyone. They are basically a black hole sucking in underfunded clueless traders telling them how they can trade futures with a 5,000 account. You have a better chance of making money playing the lottery. There is an old saying fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on you. Before you join another trading room hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago And hopefully Sykes8217 investimonials also gets known for their 98 canned reviews by vendors. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Thanks for the review. You probably saved me thousands. I am one that thought it was too good to be true. I found your review after doing a google search on Delta Trading. I thought it had to be a scam, but wanted to make sure. I8217m glad I didn8217t sit through hours of the Dr. telling me how great he is. His add8217s started running in the Salt Lake Area on KSL radio. The Dr. came on welcoming KSL listeners to the show and said he was alumni of BYU. Interesting that Utah County is the White Collar Crime hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago 18 of the last 22 years in prison. Two separate convictions for drug trafficking. Fake Dr. The list is long and ridiculous. Yet people fall for it. Amazing really. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Can you substantiate he spent 18 of the last 22 years in prison for trafficking drugs How did he spend 20 years as a professional trader and writing systems for the big wall street firms This is very scary Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago It8217s already been substantiated here: casetextcaseus-v-clifford-vance-cast home. bexar. orgdcdcrecords. html (download the excel and search, notice the birth date and the name above his as well if you need verification that it8217s him) It8217s simple: Doctor, pilot, Army service, 8220best selling author8221, 8220mentor8221 at Ensign, over 2 decades working with trading professionals, and all the other bullshit he claims to be credibility to gain your trust and money. Imagine how many people would buy his crap if these were his listed credentials: Professional drug trafficker twice (I8217m not a quitter). Spent half of adult life behind bars authoring children8217s books, attaining fake hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago thanks for the heads up-you did basic research and found holes. You are right - show me the money - performance data thanks again Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago what vacation spot did the good DR spend his prison time in Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago I did some research earlier this year and everything looked great. So I joined, I8217m probably down 10K, thank god I decided to stop when I did. I always laughed at people that took the bait on stuff like this, I won8217t any longer. I8217m not naive, elderly or stupid, but I did have a few dumb months. I8217ve been wondering if there is a way to get my money back for the joining I think they say you are buying software, which is a bunch of crap, I8217m in the software business and I can tell you that it hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Everyone loses at first. I lost almost 5k in trading right off the bat. The reason you lose is you do not stay in for the full 4 points on the winning trades. Bottom line if you take all of the signals with the trend on the 5 minute chart, even if it isn8217t trending necessarily you will make money. It needs to be looked at on a weekly basis. And you will average around 15 points per week if you do it right. My track record for 2015 is around 30 trades per week currently 48 pct winners hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago Great article Emmett. Thought you might be interested in the actual link to the Hong Kong University Library dissertation on 8220Risk homeostasis8221 by Dr. Clifford Vance Cast that you mentioned in your article. The link is sunzi. lib. hku. hkERdetailhkul3633919. It only gives a summary of the article and it has nothing to do with Risk homeostasis in trading. Rather it concerns itself with82308221risk homeostasis theory, technology, and aviation.8221 I attempted to access the full paper but it8217s in a restricted area available to students, faculty and alumni only. Keep up the excellent work Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago He probably plagiarized Gerald J. S. Wilde anyway. Clifford is so full of shit he probably believes (as well as his followers) the crap that comes out of his mouth. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 11 months 16 days ago So whatever happened to the Delta Group that was using Meetup. There off the site and not explanations823082308230. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 11 months 16 days ago Here is one for the record books. I8217m settling the estate of my intelligent funny but unfortunately am radio junkie friend who got hooked into almost everything the predators advertise on these stations..They know who their prey are8230. I found the 4500 entry she sent to Delta Trading Group in Dec 2014. i8217m sure she never did anything with it - she was also hooked by the IPX Arizona Real Estate scam. Take ALL your IRA money out and buy our 8220investment8221 properties for full market price after we have bought them for cheap and rehabbed them - then sell them back hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 11 months 7 days ago Wow, what a depressing story. Glad you wrote about what happened. I get these types of emails about the 8220Dr8221 quite often. Fortunately, word is starting to get out and I believe i am making a dent in his business. The problem with the truth is that a lie has made it half way around the world before the truth gets one leg inside of a pant leg. I think Mark Twain came up with that. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 11 months 7 days ago First, Am radio listeners are generally more informed that the general public. You have to be pretty low informed to not see that. But its like anything else, the vast majority of humans cant sort the facts from the lies. Global warming climate change is a great example. Half the people are gullible enough to fall for clearly doctored data and use it as justification to run the lives of others. Then you have the other half who take that doctored data and proclaim it as proof that humans have absolutely no effect on the planet. Bother sides are 8220informed8221 hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 11 months 5 days ago FYI, I am a prolific AM radio listener. I am convinced it has made me dumber. Lol. But thats just me. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 11 months 4 days ago Dont make the mistake of dealing with Vance Cast and Delta Trading Group. Theyre a bunch of scammers who are only after your money. They dont even have license. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 6 months 4 days ago i passed on the Delta Traders after some due diligence research on the good 8220Dr.8221 i too was dismayed by the negative comments on Am listeners, I am an RN PhD. Anyone looked into J. Rickards Impact Trading Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 5 months 30 days ago Very well written and enjoyable to read article. Thanks for the knowledge, Emmitt. I heard the radio pitch this past weekend while driving8230 and while I was never seriously draw in, I did keep listening and day dream a little. When you work two jobs and seem to run the rat race non-stop8230 it8217s a seductive idea. 8220Work 2 to 4 hours per day and make more than you do now8221 That would be something, wouldn8217t it Not surprised at all to learn it is a scam. Ce la vie. Back to rat race8230 Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 5 months 28 days ago Clifford is great at selling the dream. He prefers to be call Vance, The Doctor, Doc, or Dr. Cast. I prefer Clifford. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 5 months 27 days ago While it8217s true many of those who listen to coast to coast AM and those who call often sound like uneducated hicks, there8217s plenty of folk who listen to AM radio for news and discussion and are able to take shows like coasttocoast as entertainment. I hadn8217t heard the hour long commercial, but there have been half minute commercials I8217ve heard in the car in the past that sell the day trading dream such as touting shorting downmarkets like it was a novel idea. Vancecast has been pretty acerbic in other forums. And so was Adams who went down flaming hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 5 months 27 days ago 8220appeal to the lowest of the low information consumerAM radio listeners.8221 AM radio listeners are the most informed audience out there. The FM crowd and internet social media crowd cant tell you much more than the headline catch phrases. Remember it was the AM radio listener who coined the phrase low information voter. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 5 months 25 days ago I have a secret. I listen to AM radio shows. Its like candy. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 5 months 25 days ago I disagree with the review. I am a member of the group and the system works. As long as you follow the rules it is very profitable. Why would Ensign have Dr Cast as a Mentor trader on their website if it were a scam I love Dr. Cast, he has helped people change their lives. Some people will never get it, they break the rules and don8217t have the discipline, but like I said the system works if you follow the rules The best dam trading group on the planet Ride the range of change baby Vote Up -1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Thanks for the comment. Softball reviews never inspire change. My grip is the lack of transparency, simply put, there needs to be a record of trades, or dom present, or account statements, etc. Nothing would make me happier than to come back and write an updated review. Eating crow would be a delicious change on the daily menu, thus far, my primary menu item has been BS. And I will even give him credit for his PhD Vendors refuse to change unless they are absolutely cornered. Where the only path forward is accountability and openness. If the good doctor can hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Why would Ensign have him as a mentor Simple. He uses and promotes their software. I8217m sure he gets a kickback. The phrase 8220Ensign mentor8221 is nothing more than a play on a words to gain credibility and . I don8217t think the review necessarily labels it a scam. It looks to me like Emmett is simply looking for proof that it8217s not a scam. The real scam is your mentor8217s background. Check it out for yourself, do the math, and if you don8217t care, then don8217t. You8217re a member, so, they already have your money. Those that aren8217t should hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 4 months ago OK, then, why no recorded proof Real financial traders can trace their progress and show what they made. I don8217t do a lot of trading, but i can show you all of my trades, how much I made or lost and which trades did what. It is a bit amazing that a person with the ego the Dr has wouldn8217t want tho brag about his trades. Just show the total percentage increase in your book over a one year period. How much do you have to make to offset a 15K fee Anyone who won8217t show proof, is subject in hellip Read more raquo Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Show us the results Tim. Words are cheap (and often are full of lies and deception). Results are what matter. Can you show us your results Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 3 months ago There is more to it then you know. Vote Up -1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Don8217t eat your pie to soon Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Hey, I love it when a vendor proves me wrong And the readers love it too. Believe me, after I get some solid performance figures from the good doctor, I will write a new review, will grovel and admit my stupidity. Heck, I will even hand wash and wax the good doctors Rolls Royce Vote Up 2 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago I do not think he owns a Rolls Royce. Could you please email me privately I think you would be very interested in what I have to say before you do another review. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago I attempted to email you, but the email address that you provided when you left your original comment keeps bouncing. Please go to my 8220Add Listing And Review Request8221 page. This is a secure form, please leave your private contact information here. I will not share this information. Vote Up 1 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago I8217m still waiting for that private chat. It has nothing to do with defending someone who lies and scams people for a living You misread my posting. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago That8217s the whole issue her, 8220More than you know.8221 why can8217y you say what it is that is more You are asking for almost 10K to find out the 8220more.8221 That doesn8217t sound like a good investment. So, just trust you, huh If I said just send me 10k and I8217ll send you a car that is worth much more than that, would you do it Oh, BTW, I have a PHD. Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 1 month ago Emmet, I am a member of delta for around 19 months now and I want to see if I can discuss your review. However first just so you know I do not work for vance so I am not going to sugar coat anything and some of your thoughts do have some validity. The only thing there is the ones that arguably do have some accuracy at the end of the day are trivial. Not disrespect intended. The bottom line is the style of trading he teaches does work. But the rules need to be followed and quite honestly they hellip Read more raquo Vote Up -2 Vote Down Reply 1 year 2 months ago I have been working with Vance for approx. 4 months and his program has been unbelievably. It works if you follow the rules. Try it and you will see Vote Up -3 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago Thanks for the note Mike. Should I be warming up the oven for my Humble Pie Vote Up 0 Vote Down Reply 1 year 6 months ago mike miller Portland I think it, s funny all you people posting comments on here when none of you really know everything about day trading I been trading for 20 years and I think you guys are weak and pussy8217s Vote Up -5 Vote Down ReplyYu-Gi-Oh 8211 7 Trials to Glory Join Yu-Gi-Oh on his duel adventure as he enter duel tournaments. Light and dark clash in a town where everyone waits to duel. Battles take the place of words and only the best will win tournaments where glittering trophies await the victor. he game features 1000 cards to collect and Duel with, and includes more than 400 brand new cards from the latest Trading Card Game Booster Packs. Other new gameplay additions in the 2005 edition include a new, refined Dueling system, an all-new RPG-style exploration mode has also been implemented, tournament scheduling, and improved card management. As Always, Good Luck and Have Fun. 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